Episode 176

Kyle And Sara Wester (39:16.288)One of the biggest goals Sarah and I had as parents was ⁓ to raise kids who feel unconditionally loved, who don't question their worth ⁓ or their value, because we know it's so important for them to get through a world that can be pretty challenging and hard many times. And so today I wanted to share with you ⁓ the 13 principles of unconditional parenting.from Alfie Cohn and his book, Unconditional Parenting. I've been rereading it and I felt really selfish just keeping it to myself. So I wanted today to join you on this journey, get a pen and paper ready to be able to write these 13 principles down because I'm telling you, it is gold and it will transform the relationship with your kids. So you're have 13 clear steps on how to create a family where your children know they are unconditionally loved. And if you haven't already, please take the time. It means the world to us. When you comment, when you rate and review the podcast, It just says subscribing all this stuff gets more word out about the podcast. The podcast is growing all the time, which not only allows us to reach more parents, but also get even better guests. We've got some great, great big names coming up over the next ⁓ few months. And a lot of that comes because of listeners like you, ⁓ regularly listening to this and being hungry to ⁓ learn more about how you can transform yourself as a parent and help your kids know that they are unconditionally loved. So hope you enjoy this episode.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.102)
Hello and welcome to the art of raising humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there. I'm Sarah. And you know, Sarah, one of the reasons why we started this podcast many years ago was because you and I get access to a lot of great trainings and get the opportunity to talk to a lot of people, know, ⁓ and we read books all the time about parenting. Yeah. All the time. Literally. And so recently, recently we had a guest on Alfie cone and Alfie cone has been a,
an author for a while, a speaker for a long time. If you haven't checked out that episode, go back, it was a few months ago. But that got me thinking about some of the Alfie Cohn books that I had read in the past. I wanted to reread them. I got kind of excited about rereading them. And so when I started reading his book, Unconditional Parenting, I wanna show our audience right now what it looks like. It looks like this. If you're on YouTube, if you're not on YouTube, go check us out on YouTube. ⁓ It's called Unconditional Parenting. And I just love that title, first of all, because I think every parent listening wants to...
love their kids unconditionally. think that's the goal. ⁓ We all want to be loved unconditionally. That'd be great, right? ⁓ So I wanted to dive into just one particular chapter that he shares that's full of such great stuff. it's basically like the 13 principles he's kind of lined out to be an unconditional parent.
to raise kids who believe they're unconditionally loved. And as I'm reading it, I just felt selfish keeping it, you know? I kept telling you about it. I was underlining like crazy. It was like, you gotta read this next thing or see this next thing. I think our audience would love this. And I know even when I get the luxury, Sarah, of coaching parents ⁓ either over Zoom or in the office, I'm sharing stuff like this with them all the time to kind of help them change their parenting. And I just, I do want to emphasize too to anybody listening, I mean, the parent coaching, if you've never heard of it or done it,
It is so powerful, it's so fun to get to journey with families. ⁓ It's always so cool, Sarah, to get a call from a family anywhere throughout the United States, throughout the world, and they've got some little kids, and they're saying, man, me and my spouse wanna change this up. We're tired of using fear and shame, and we didn't even know parent coaching existed. I got one of those calls this week, and it's just really fun for us to be able to then coach them through it, like actually walk them through ⁓ not being a perfect parent, but actually helping them

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:10.478)
become a team and to work together towards building the family they always dreamed of having. Yeah, kind of similar to getting a business coach or a life coach or coaching for different things. We've got kids in sports, there's all kinds of pitching coaches and things like that. And this is one where you focus on parenting. And if you're like, I need to bring something fresh to my parenting, it's just great for that. It's exciting.
And once again, we wouldn't be the parents we are without coaching that we have from some really, really helpful people in this field. So Sarah, what I wanted to do, I'm gonna go through these 13 principles. So if you're listening today and you're wanting to, you're curious, what are these 13 principles? How do I become an unconditional parent or a parent who raises kids who knows they're unconditionally loved? I'm gonna walk these through. You've not read this particular section. You may have looked at it in the past, but it's not something new. So I'm gonna like throw them at you. I wanna hear your reaction. And I kinda wanna just talk about what Alfie Cohn says about these.
Many of them I think we do, some of them we don't or we're not as intentional as I'd like us to be. Yeah, I think ⁓ this one is, ⁓ we do this all the time, we're always encouraging everyone to do this. Parenting is really about us first ⁓ and what I love about Elphie Cohen is I think he can be hard in some ways, like he really challenges you as a parent. And so this is an invitation to be brave, ⁓ to be honest with ourselves. We're not ever gonna achieve a perfection.
as a parent, but you know, I love to bring this stuff back up. I love to look and just look at have an honest look at myself and go, okay, where do I want to keep putting energy and focus because I want to keep growing and I want to do the best for my kids. Okay. So, so remember the, so these 13, ⁓ they're just kind of, we're going to hit one. You'll give me your thoughts. I'll go kind of dive in deeper and just would like each listener to just be open and receptive and just see, man, is this something we're doing well? It's something I'd like to do more.
Okay. ⁓ so number one is something that we do talk a lot about on here somewhat is be reflective, you know, be a reflective parent. And Alfie Cohen says, he just says in short, the best parents are introspective and willing to give themselves a hard time. Not meaning they're willing to beat themselves up, but they're willing to look at what they're doing and why they're doing it. Right. He says, most of us would benefit by spending more time reviewing what we've done with our children.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:33.398)
in order to be better parents tomorrow than we are today. So he says in short, be honest with yourselves about your motives. Don't stop being troubled by things you do that really are troubling. I mean, that really hit me. ⁓ That really hit me. It's so good. It's so good and so true. Yes. He says, be alert for the signs that the way you interact with your children may have drifted toward a controlling style without you even being aware of it. And that this is one that I do.
Sarah on daily, definitely a weekly basis where I'm thinking, is that thing I did with Ellie or with Brennan or Abby, ⁓ what was I doing there? And is it just me drifting back into old habits that I was taught? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're gonna do that, right? ⁓ And I think it is, it's a little hard because man, at the same time, you're like, okay, I'm gonna take an honest look at that moment with my kid. You know, it's so easy for shame and guilt to get in there and everything get all mucked up and.
But we've got to keep turning that direction. We've got to keep turning towards ourself and doing the hard thing of what was that about? Is that a moment I need to reparent myself that came from my childhood? What happened in this moment for real? And it's much more, it's about looking at us. Not our kid, not how they should have changed or what they should have done. It's about us in that moment. Yeah, and it's something, I know he doesn't say this.
but it's something that I would say for every marriage, being reflective with each other. ⁓ And ⁓ really, I like the term, watch the game film. ⁓ Sit down with your spouse, watch the game film. What happened? ⁓ Why did I throw that interception? What was I trying to do there? ⁓ So I think just getting into that habit can also benefit your marriage too. So number one is be reflective. Number two, ⁓ this is one that was really new to us, I think, for me in particular, ⁓ when we first had kids was,
reconsider your requests. ⁓ He said, here's a very unsettling possibility. Perhaps when your child doesn't do what you're demanding, the problem isn't with the child, but with what it is you're demanding. It's remarkable how few books written for parents even raise this possibility. The vast majority of them, and this is true, they take whatever their readers want their kids to do as the point of departure and then offer techniques for getting compliance. In most cases, these techniques,

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:52.866)
I would say a lot of counselors do this as well, is they take whatever the parent wants to do and then they think, let's get that kid to do it, right? In most cases, these techniques involve, quote unquote, positive reinforcement or consequences, that is bribes or threats. In some cases, they involve more thoughtful and respectful ways of interacting with children, but almost never are parents encouraged to reconsider their requests. Yeah, so I love what he says there, because I think we have moments of that, you know, we think, ⁓ my child has ADHD, so I need to remember this. You know, maybe that request is too much or,
⁓ developmentally, maybe my child's three, so asking them to pick up their room, you know, but we forget, that almost seems woven into everything. ⁓ And we forget that we really need to look at the individual child. We can't look at all the eight year olds. We can't look at, we need to look at that child. And rather we agree or not, is that request okay for that child? And a lot of times we may not like the answer. The kid is telling us they're not ready for that. And we need to.
back up and ⁓ do something different. We've done that so many times when you have three kids. Sometimes I know I expect the youngest to be able to do what I'm asking the oldest to do simply because I'm thinking, when Abby was that age, she could do this. you should be as if I know they're all unique, but yet somehow I treat them. We slip into it so easy. And it's like, well, if she's having a problem with it, maybe I need to help her. ⁓ when I reflect on it and I go back and I do reflect.
I haven't really walked her through it the way I did Abby because Abby was our first and maybe I purposely did walk through it now I'm just assuming she knows it so I think that causes a lot plus personality differences you know like I know their own skill set some are better at focus than another one well some kids are it can clean their room by themselves easier some need help with that some eating food is not a problem others it is right so it's like really just stopping from one thing is what I'm asking them to do is that reasonable yeah
Yeah, and I don't think that's something I ever saw my parents do. It typically the old school model was if I asked you to do it and you don't, the goal is now how do I get you to do it? It's something wrong with the child. Yes. It's never there. It's not the request. It's very seldom the request. And I think I think his challenge here is brilliant. We need to look at the request more often. So he ends that by saying my central point is that before searching for some method to get kids to do what we tell them, we should first take the time to rethink the value or necessity of our

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:13.646)
And I just think that's good even as a couple once again I might come back and say do you think this is reasonable the thing I'm asking and then maybe get your feedback and then your thoughts can help me go oh yeah maybe yeah haven't spent the time doing it you know and maybe we haven't walked them through how to wash the dishes or how to clean up dog poop whatever might be right okay number three number three is keep your eye on your long-term goals so you said consider the possibility that certain parenting strategies may actually impede
the realization of your goals. So he says, suppose for example, you want your child to grow into someone who is A, ethical, and B, able to sustain healthy relationships. I think we all want that. C, intellectually curious, and D, fundamentally content with him or herself. Those all sound like great goals. The task then would be to ask whether each of these goals is more or less likely to be achieved as a result of using love withdrawal techniques such as timeout or selectively reinforcing the behaviors you like or saying,
even if it's not so many words, because I'm the parent, that's why, just do it. In fact, anything you do with your children on regular basis should be evaluated in light of your ultimate goals. Now, that goes along with what I think even Steven Covey says, and seven habits of highly affected people, you wanna start with the end in mind. Like a simple thing we ask parents to do a lot is to write down, where do you wanna be when the kid's 18? What kind of parent do you wanna be? What kind of kid do you wanna raise? And then is what you're doing now achieving that? And I just think,
A lot of parenting isn't asking that question. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's something we lean into quite a bit. ⁓ I mean, especially on the side of relationship. I want relationship with my child. ⁓ I want, ⁓ I want them to feel confident. I want them to be resilient. And so I often use those as measuring sticks to, is this bringing me closer to my child or further away? ⁓ And of course I feel very strongly that punishments are going to bring.
only division, know, even if it's for, ⁓ yeah, well, won't go down that road. But, you know, if you look is how is my relationship, how, you know, what are my long-term goals and, and that always be looking at that endpoint and this little thing, is it getting me closer or further from that goal? Yeah. And he, wraps up this idea by saying the good news is that when parents do manage to keep their broader objectives in view, indeed, when they focus on anything more ambitious than just getting their kids to obey right this instance.

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:32.098)
they tend to use better parenting skills and they get better results. And I find that's completely, so many, almost every time Sarah that I've changed something I'm doing with the kids is because I've stopped to think, is this actually going to get me where I want to go? Or is this just about instant gratification rather than the delayed joy that you want to feel raising a kid who has a connected, deep relationship with you? Yeah. Small ways, maybe like cleaning a room or doing the dishes or something. ⁓
I would like the dishes done. Sometimes we almost get distracted by just getting the dishes done. But like you're saying, I actually want a child who's going to notice a task that needs to be done, feel capable that they're the person who can contribute, see the value and contribute all these big picture things. And so just getting the kid to do the dishes and they're grumbling and they're alone and that actually doesn't achieve my larger goal. So again, looking towards my larger goal. And that keeps goes into number four, honey. So number four is put the relationship first.
So he says here, being right isn't necessarily what matters. In fact, it matters very little if your child stiffens when you walk into the room. In a purely practical sense, misbehavior is easier to address and problems are easier to solve when children feel safe enough with us to explain the reasons they did something wrong. Kids are more likely to come to us when they're in trouble, to look to us for advice and to want to spend time with us when they can choose whether to do so. Furthermore, when they know they can trust us, they're more likely to do what we ask.
If we tell them it's really important, of course, a solid and loving relationship isn't justified primarily because it's useful. It's an end in itself. ⁓ This one is hard. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ You know, to, to build that level of trust where they can come to you and say, I really messed this up or to be honest, this is what I did or why I did it. You know,
I mean, just think who would you actually admit something big to? And then we have to remember as parents, we're so important in their lives. ⁓ And ⁓ even if we try so hard, they don't want to disappoint us. They don't want to see our face fall. ⁓ You know, they, don't want to risk our love. ⁓ And that's always on the table for a kid. ⁓ And rather they act like it or not, you know, that really does, those relationships matter.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:45.750)
And so to be that safe person, they can come and admit that mistake too. And, ⁓ know, they're thinking you're going to be mad at me. You're going to, ⁓ you know, pun whatever it might be, even if it's just, I'm going to disappoint you. ⁓ It's really hard to get to that place. I remember helping a kid a few years ago. ⁓ He wanted to open up. He's going, going into his teenage years and really, I think he wants to connect with his dad and know his dad. And he was just saying, he doesn't really open to his eyes. How come you don't open up to your dad?
And he remembered something that happened one summer where they were doing something as a family and he didn't want to keep doing anymore. And he went to his dad as dad blew up at him was frustrated. ⁓ His dad was probably frustrated a lot of things, but he took it personal as a little like nine year old kid. ⁓ And he had decided from then on, I don't want to go to dad anymore because he's just going to yell at me. And dad barely remembered that moment. ⁓ But it's because in that moment, the relationship was not put first. And we're all going to do that. We're all going to mess up. ⁓ But they didn't see the signs over the years that the kid was pulling away more and more and more.
and never leaned into that, right? And if they had, then maybe the kid could have told the dad. But eventually, I was able to tell the dad, the relationship was mended, dad knew. So I think they're still gonna get there. But it's just interesting, like you said, our words mean so much and too often, we don't put the relationship first, we put the task or the thing that we wanna get done. Okay, so number five, I love this one and how he says, says, change how you see, not just how you act. Change how you see, not just how you act. He says, unconditional parents,
don't just behave differently, such as by avoiding the use of punishment. That's too often, I think, what people think. It's like people think, I'm being a gentle parent, or I'm being whatever you want to call it. I'm just not punishing. But he says, they actually see things differently. When a child does something inappropriate, conditional parents are likely to perceive this as an infraction. And infractions naturally seem to call for consequences. Unconditional parents are apt to see the same act as a problem to be solved, an opportunity for teaching.
rather than from making the child suffer. Again, it's not just the choice of working with as opposed to doing to, it's that these responses emerge from how one makes sense of what happened. Moreover, to see the child's behavior as a teachable moment invites us to include them in the process of solving the problem, which is more likely to be effective. I love this one. I mean, it is so true. Just like looking through, it's like pulling up sunglasses or something I can look up.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:3.362)
These is like, something's wrong with the kid. They did something wrong. Or I can put on my other glasses and it's like, ⁓ you're missing a skill here. Or we have a problem we need to ⁓ work on or to solve together. ⁓ But it's coming alongside them. We talk a lot about this versus they need to be punished and somehow coerced or whatever into a different action. It's just building the skills in them so they can tackle whatever. I hope every listener has had someone do this to them.
like see them this way. I know you've done it for me Sarah and it's a part I really love about our marriage that ⁓ all too often you're willing to see my behavior in a different way and understand it differently which actually helps me see it differently. So that's how I've lived it but I also think everybody needs a mentor or a coach or ⁓ some boss who sees you like this and I had the privilege of working with a principal who was fantastic like this who saw kids this way and it just really helped me get past of the outward in.
to instead being curious. I remember as a kid Sarah just being sick sometimes and then acting quote unquote disrespectfully and then my dad getting mad at me. And I'm like, I'm sick. Like what do want me to do here? I'm hurting, you know? But there was no thought to, oh, he's hurting. Oh, let me help him. Yeah. And I just want to think like, do you not understand how much pain I'm in? And so I think everybody wants somebody who will do that for them. And I think every kid, they desire, they all desire. So number six.
He titles as R-E-S-P-E-C-T. We all know what that spells and that is respect. And once again, this is a big, big thing because you hear so many parents talk about being respected by their child. But Alfie Cohn, and I think you've all heard this, but respect starts first by respecting the kid. But what does that mean to respect your child? So he says, part of what I mean is by taking children seriously is treating them with respect. My value judgment is that all people deserve this. My hypothesis is that kids,
are more likely to respect others, including you, if they themselves feel respected. Even parents who obviously love their children don't always act as though they respect them. And so ⁓ I know he gave some good examples here. He says, too often, I know I've done this at times, he says, they write off their kids' requests, they dismiss their feelings of anger, or they trivialize their fears. I've never done that, I'm just gonna write it. They interrupt their kids in a way they wouldn't dream of doing with another adult, and yet they become incensed when their kids interrupt them.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:23.062)
And they may also talk about their children in belittling way. And they'll say things like, she's just being a prima donna. Just ignore him when he acts like that. Like, I was like, wow, this happens so often, you know? And he says to treat children respectfully means making an effort to avoid doing that kind of stuff. But it also means realizing that children are more knowledgeable about some matters than we are. And this was very hard, for me. I know you are much more apt to believe the kids in this way. It's hard for me. And he says, I don't just mean...
that they know which dinosaurs or meat eaters, he says, no, children sometimes know better than parents when they are sleepy or when they are hungry. They know better the qualities of their friends, their own aspirations and goals, how their various teachers treat them. They know better the urges and needs within their bodies, whom they love, whom they don't, what they value, what they don't. And I just thought, wow, that is not something.
We saw as kids it was typically like you don't the kid does not know more than a parent the parent always knows more It's the grown-up. Yes, the grown-up. Yes. Yeah, nobody doesn't matter who it is. Yeah grown-up always yes I think ⁓ it's disrespectful for the kid to think that they know more. Yeah, right Yeah, ⁓ I think this one is really really important to me. I think I worked a lot with very little kids and as I worked with them, I just honestly, I mean I don't I just
just saw their brilliance. I think if you work that much, you see how they have such great insight. And ⁓ I think we just don't know the language always. But I learned to to me, ⁓ I don't know how to say other than elevate their humanity. Instead of looking down on them as this, I'm this great being who has something to give to them. ⁓ We have these moments, we recognize what they have to give to us, but I think we need to see each other. Doesn't mean I give them everything they want. ⁓
just like I don't get everything I want. ⁓ All that's aside. But you can treat someone as ⁓ equally valuable and important ⁓ and their thoughts, their feelings, all of that can be equally important without having to give everything to them. just think even if we just start with like let's raise up that, ⁓ the fact that they are not ready to stop playing video games is important. Even if they need to stop, their feelings about it is important.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:35.214)
that car that they have a hard time leaving behind is important. They wanted to play with that toy. All those things are important instead of just, it's a silly little car. It's time to go. We've got to get to school, you know, just elevating their thoughts and feelings. And it's amazing to watch their face light up when they think, wow, you're seeing me as a valuable person. And a lot of kids, see them, they would cooperate with me just because they're like, oh,
I You care. You care that I care. that alone would do so much. as you're talking, Sarah, I'm thinking how many marriages would love to have this? if every couple just read that paragraph there about respecting each other, each other's feelings, desires, like that's at the core of a lot of conflict in marriage. It's belittling the other one for how they feel or think about things. So it's really important to go back to this and model it in your marriage, then give it to your kids. I think as a just a personal exercise, if you can just
pauses or whatever, take a moment sometime today and think about a moment when you were a kid that either something very important to you was dismissed or a time where someone actually really listened to you and what that felt for you inside, you know, ⁓ and ⁓ I think that just kind of, we need to revisit those moments because we get so grown up and adult and we need to sometimes connect with that little child in us. That's great. love it. So number seven, number seven is be authentic.
And Alfie Cohn says this, some people are accused of trying to be a friend to their children rather than a parent. I agree that this confusion can be unseemly and unhelpful, but while we have to be more than pals, we mustn't stop being people with them. We shouldn't hide behind the role of father or mother to the point that our humanity or our human connection with them disappears. He says there's a dimension of genuineness that's missing in the way some parents act with their kids. And that absence can be keenly felt even if the children aren't
can't quite identify what's lacking in or not quite right about the relationship. Real people have needs of their own, things they enjoy doing, things they don't like doing. Kids should know that. Real people sometimes become flustered or distracted or tired. They're not always sure what to do. Sometimes they say things ⁓ without thinking and then later regret those things. We shouldn't pretend to be more competent than we are and when we screw up, we should admit it. Yeah, this is great, right? I mean, honestly,

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:56.430)
We're trying to navigate this stuff too and we mess up and it's so great for our kids. It's such a gift to our kids for them to ⁓ watch that model. Like, ⁓ sometimes you make mistakes too or this is what you do and you make a mistake or you don't always know what to do in a moment. And we feel like we have to be perfect for kids. You always have to have an answer even if you're making it up. And it's just not true. And we really give something to our kids when we can live in that space of, yeah, I'm human too. I'm figuring this stuff out. I make mistakes.
And I think that helps the child even feel safer to also be human. I love that, man. And how freeing is it for a kid? He goes on to say this. I want to wrap that thought up. He says, many parents fear that reaching out to develop genuine, warm relationships with their kids may compromise their capacity to control them. Much of conditional parenting can be traced back to the fact that when those two objectives clash, control tends to be favored over connection. I know I even slip into that sometimes.
You can see this even in the subtle ways parents distance themselves from their kids. ⁓ He says, such as by talking about themselves in the third person. Mommy has to leave now. ⁓ Long after the child is able to understand how pronouns work, children's will still look up to us even if we're candid about our limitations, even if we speak to them from our hearts. And even if they can see that for all the privileges and wisdom that adulthood confers, we're still just people struggling to make our way in the world, to do the right thing, to balance people's needs, to keep learning.
just as they are. In fact, the more, I just want listeners to hear this, the more real we are with them, the more likely it is that they'll feel real respect for us. ⁓ I mean, Sarah, we've done this so many times with adults. I get to do it a lot with like, you know, adults who come in and tell me things that they're struggling with.
I respect them more when they're talking to you. You respect people are authentic. Yes. You the mass the fake. don't respect that. You don't trust it. It's the same especially in this age of social media and how fake and the pose and people do. Yes. That's why kids like to go to their friends. They're to be real. Yes. I'm to fake it. I love it. Okay. So number eight. This is this is a good one. We've done some some some stuff on this but this is important. Talk less. Ask more.

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So he says, dictating to kids, even in a nice way, is far less productive than eliciting ideas and objections and feelings from them. If talking to our children about what they've done wrong fails to bring about the results we were hoping for, it isn't because some stronger form of discipline is required. It may be because we did most of the talking. Maybe we were so busy trying to get them to see our point of view, I've done that, ⁓ that we didn't really see or hear theirs. To be a great parent is more a function of listening than of explaining.
Yeah, I don't know. need to add a lot to that. I know. Listen talk less. Listen more, talk less. ⁓ It's amazing if you give them a chance to talk, what you'll hear, what you'll learn, how you guys will grow. He does have a lot to say in that section. I won't go over all, but I do want to wrap it up with this. ⁓ Obviously he says there is no recipe because I think a lot of listeners will be thinking, what's the balance between when you speak and when you listen and all that. He says, obviously there's no recipe for when to speak up and when to hold back. Sometimes we deal with children's unhappiness or rage or inappropriate behavior by talking
too much, occasionally by talking too little, and most often by talking in a way that isn't particularly helpful. Overall though, the prescription to talk less and ask more can be a useful guide, and that's what it is, right? Particularly if we apply it in a way that helps us to become more responsive and more supportive. ⁓ So I think that's the idea. It's not that you just don't wanna talk at all. ⁓ I mean, there are things that you have to contribute, but it is to keep that as a guide, that in general, most relationships, marriage once again, talking less, listening more, it's important, okay?
⁓ Number nine keep their ages in mind. this is one I think is a lot a lot of parents have questions about it What is appropriate for this but but he says here controlling parents are likely to hold children to unrealistically high expectations partly because they don't understand just how unrealistic those expectations are ⁓ for instance, they might be ⁓ Punishing a toddler for failing to do what he said he would do or demand that a preschooler sit quietly through a long family dinner The reality is that very young children simply can't grasp
the obligation entailed by making a promise ⁓ to hold them responsible for doing so, to use the phrase preferred by early childhood experts is developmentally inappropriate. So we have to keep our expectations keyed to what they're capable of doing. Yeah, and for teenagers this looks like, wait, how come, didn't you know this was gonna happen or why didn't you make, you made a plan, didn't, so teenagers, their brain development isn't there, they're really bad at thinking.

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through the steps now and how that impacts them later and making a plan and following through on all the plans. They're not great at that. They're not gonna be great at that for years and yet we're shocked every time. ⁓ I know I still, well come on. I know, why have you not got this figured out? Well, but I'm thinking, Sarah, the way we did this that was really helpful was when we would go out to eat and the kids were little, ⁓ we never expected them to sit there for a long time. Yeah, that one we were good Yeah, we always had a plan. were like.
I think they could get out of their chair and we just walk around. Then I would go, if we walk around the restaurant, we could use it as a chance for them to use some social skills. Maybe say hi to people or ask questions or check, use their curiosity. And like I knew at times there were, we did feel judged maybe by people that were with us eating or whatever ⁓ in subtle ways. Like why is the kid just not sitting there? But you and I never thought that that should be years old waiting 45 minutes for dinner, sitting in a high chair where you're strapped in and stuff.
I mean, that's just not, but I would say though, when we did our first road trip to Colorado, I had unrealistic expectations. I thought they would just sit back there and be quiet for time. And like, yeah, as they started, I thought they might be unhappy, but I didn't think they were going to scream as they're screaming. I'm like, why are they screaming? Like, let's stop this. We had to change those expectations and figure out a way to support them. Okay. Number 10, attribute to children, the best possible motive consistent with the facts. So we might call this
positive intent. know, so basically says ⁓ one, we usually don't know for sure why a child acted the way he or she did to our beliefs about those reasons can create a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we assume that an inappropriate action was motivated by child sinister desire to cause trouble or ⁓ to see how much he can get away with, which is often what we go to ⁓ or if we attribute such behaviors to his being a natural troublemaker, he may become exactly what we fear. construct a theory about their own motives.
based on our assumptions about their motives and then they act accordingly. So he says, though we may never speak an unkind word about our children, assumptions about their motives invariably affect the way we treat them. The more negative those assumptions are, the more inclined we will be to control them unnecessarily. There's research this all the time. I'd guys, so many times when people come for coaching, this is what's happening. They've watched this in school systems. They have watched this in so many places that even if you don't say it,

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if that's where your mind is, the kids pick up on it. So ⁓ we need to be very intentional about what we are assuming, believing, and thinking about our children and what they're doing. Yes. Yeah. And so he says, especially with younger kids, especially in the of young children whose apparent misbehavior really is likely to be due mostly to their age, in which case our positive assumptions are probably accurate, and whose sense of themselves is still in formation. ⁓ So our assumptions, positive or negative, affect them more.
However, with older children, our first reaction shouldn't be to blame them. Rather, we need to sympathize and try to understand why our children acted as they did. ⁓ Right? So going back to that curiosity, ⁓ curiosity, just be curious. Okay. Number 11, don't stick your nose in unnecessarily. Nose and O apostrophe S. Okay. He says the belief that parents today don't say no to their children often enough is a subset of the more general claim.
that permissiveness is running rampant. That's the whole pushback on gentle parenting. ⁓ That kids are spoiled because adults fail to control them enough. And he says, the reality is that most parents are constantly saying no. According to descriptive studies, young children in particular are prevented from doing something they want or made to do something they'd rather not literally every few minutes. ⁓ imagine living life that way. Imagine if every time you were going, no, no, ⁓ don't, don't stop.
⁓ Yeah, he says even if you don't realize this try keeping track of what happens in your house over the course of a day Of course, no responsible parent can avoid all such interventions But it's worth asking whether we do them to excess and he says when I say that we should make sure we're not saying no too often run this so I don't mean that our Convenience our wants don't count to they do once again. That's a mistake of the permissive parenting, right? Okay, but they shouldn't count for so much that we're gratuitously restricting our children
prohibiting them from trying things out. When you come right down to it, the whole process of raising a kid is pretty inconvenient, particularly if you want to do it well. If you're unwilling to give up any of your free time, if you want your house to stay quiet and clean, you might consider raising tropical fish instead. Very true, very true. think we, ⁓ yeah, there needs to be more in like, hey, if you have a kid, this is what you're signing up.

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Yes, yes and come into it knowing that there's gonna be things you have to give up, right? And that I think all that it is a path of like you're not trying to be completely selfless and just like lose yourself and your children. We're not advocating that at all. It's important for you to know what you want and what you like and advocate for that. But also they're trying to do the exact same thing. You know, was just that again, we're all important. We're all important. Yeah. So he said he wraps it up. He says apart from wanting
to let our children feel competent, enjoy exploring their world, and try out new possibilities, even when they don't work out as planned, there's also the practical reason to limit our nose. It's very difficult to enforce an endless series of prohibitions. This creates a dilemma. the one hand, we may feel compelled to back off and just let them have their way in the end, which happens all too often. Okay. Yeah. The result is that we won't be taken seriously when we really do have to draw a line, when you really do have to say no.
On the other hand, we may refuse to reconsider and therefore spend an awful lot of time in a state of conflict, which is highly unpleasant for all concerned. ⁓ So ⁓ let's move away from saying no all too often. Okay, we're almost there. We got two left. So number 12, don't be rigid. Don't be rigid. Okay, so a foolish consistency is the hallmark of ineffective parenting. That's something Ralph Waldo Emerson almost said.
Wave the rules on special occasions. Forget about their bedtime now and then. Suspend the prohibition on eating in the living room under certain circumstances. Make it clear to your kids that what you're doing is in fact an exception, something they shouldn't expect all the time, but don't let a fear of creating a precedent prevent you from being flexible and spontaneous. It is amazing how much less stressed and defensive everyone is and how there's less pressure to insist on a uniform definition of justice when we think in terms of problems to be solved.
rather than in fractions to be punished. The absence of punishment also frees up parents to respond differently to each of their children without stirring up anger, charges of favoritism. Equitable treatment for siblings doesn't always mean equal treatment, and it's a heck of a lot easier to be flexible when no one's focused on which penalty will be imposed. Yeah, and comparing penalties. Yeah, and getting away from the rules and breaking the rules and all this stuff and what's supposed to be, I know parents do that, honey, because they're trying to like,

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I want to be consistent, which is great. You don't want to be like all freaking all over the place, right? But it's like, but when you're being rigid and you're not thinking like at school, this would happen a lot, Sarah, as a school counselor, a kid would do something and then another kid would do something similar and they would expect somehow the exact same thing to be done in both circumstances. But each kid was completely different. Their ages were different, their needs were different. And so, you know, my principal would constantly say fair is not always equal. Like what we did was fair. It was to help each kid do that thing better.
but it's not gonna look the same for each kid, because that'd be weird, because each kid's different. So you wanna be consistent, but that goes back to having that big picture in mind, where are you going with this? And so then it ⁓ is equal in a sense of we're doing what's best to help that kid achieve that goal. Yeah? yep. Once again, adults in the adult world, we don't do that same thing. You don't go into work and expect everyone to do the same job, everyone to have the same skillset, everyone to be held to the same standard. You're looking at what each person is trained in.
what they're good at. Maybe one person is in front of people. Maybe one person's fixing things in the back, you know, but then when we turn to kids, it's like everyone's held to the exact same bar. Yep. And then so the very last one, number 13, this is a huge one that every listener could start doing today is don't be in a hurry. When parents are in a hurry, they become more controlling because time is short, just as they do when they're in public. The combination, the combination of the two conditions is a killer.
time is short and you're trying to get things done in the public, people are watching. So he says when you have some quiet time, sit down with your co-parent, your spouse, determine where it might be possible to change your schedule in order to reduce the likelihood of having to rush your child. What if we woke up 15 minutes earlier? What if we went to the grocery store on Saturday instead? What if we change the bath time? It's often easier than you think to avoid urgency. The goal being to allow children to feel unhurried so they can actually enjoy being children.
And I remember, Sarah, this was huge, specifically for my anger and my losing my composure and yelling. ⁓ It almost always was connected to a to-do list and a timeframe I wanted to get it done. And these stinking kids were stopping me from achieving my goals. ⁓ I think we, this is a hard one for us. ⁓ We all too often and have always been kind of bad about being in a hurry. ⁓ I think you and I are both pretty big on achieving and getting a lot accomplished and multitasking and, and, ⁓

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Yeah, that doesn't always combine well with kids. This one's a struggle for us. It's harder for us to slow down and chill out. is. is. And then you and I excel in it. Every second counts. You've got to everything out of it. Let's get it going. Let's get it going. And pre-kids, we just both were on that same track, full steam ahead. gosh. I know. know. we Getting college done, getting all that stuff for us. Working, all that. Yeah. Well, I love how he wraps this up. He says, finally, I can't resist pointing out that the phrase, don't be in a hurry, has another meaning.
It might be thought of as a reminder to slow down and savor your time with your kids. When our first child was born, we quickly vowed to sling a poopy diaper at the next person who earnestly informed us that they grow up so fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we said. But you know what, it's true. They do. And so I just want to leave you with that thought, that they do grow up really fast. And we do want to raise kids who, without a doubt, ⁓ unconditionally know they are loved.
And they know whenever things get hard and challenging and they feel alone and scared, ⁓ they feel like they're worthless or shame comes in and tells them they're not enough, that they can go back to this life line that they've had all throughout their childhood, that they were loved just as they are and not as we think they should be, right? So I know that's the heart of every listener here on this podcast. know Sarah and I, it's our heart. That's why I wanted to share this you. So pick up the book if you haven't already, go into this. That was just one chapter.
of unconditional parenting. I've been loving it. I've been reading through it, just underlining the snot out of it. And we will continue as I read books like this and they blow me away. I want to make sure we bring them to you and have a discussion. And I want you to, this is what Sarah and I do at home even when I'm reading these books, we have these kinds of conversations at night. I'll like, you got to hear this old 13 things again. I got to tell you this stuff. And so I thought I want to do that with you guys and bring that to you. So feel free if you have books too that you've read that you think are awesome, send them our way and definitely help us by sharing this episode with other parents who you know want to unconditionally love our kids.
I want to thank you again for listening and taking the time to be with us today. Hope you have a wonderful day.