Episode 151

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.902)

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there. Welcome. I'm Sarah. And Sarah, you know, right now we're in like the middle of spring when this is going to drop or I guess spring will be just now starting. And so with spring, I think every parent knows things start to ramp up, get busier, you know, they get busier with sports and other types of things. Yeah, us, kids are, some of their activities are starting back up because we, after winter break.

So if your kids are doing sport activities, maybe they just got done with basketball, they're moving into soccer, they're into swimming. know our kids love to act and do musicals and other- there's all kinds of things. All of things that you kids might be doing. And we have heard a lot of feedback from kids throughout the years, but specifically families this year about doing a podcast episode specifically on-

how to approach sports and these kind of extracurricular activities in a healthier way. And I think we can speak a lot about this because I personally have not always done it in a great way, right? Yeah, I think we're in the throes of it and trying to figure out how do you do this? How do you support your child?

What's going to be stressing them out or making it worse? What's going to make it better? What's our role in this? Well, we also know it in our culture, Sarah. mean, every listener knows this, that there's some issues, right? If you've been to a sporting event specifically, that this is more so than dance or other stuff like that. But you hear a lot of parents on the sideline, like, and if you watch them, you're I know I was one of those parents occasionally, but you might be like, what in the world is happening? Why is that parent yelling at that? Yeah.

You know, kids so harshly. may have, this was not you, but we may have seen a few times now where the parents get into it so bad, yelling across the sidelines or possibly needing to leave the field. I get I'd even need to have to step in and go get like a person there that works at the facility to go help with those parents who are yelling at each other.

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:1.806)

Um, there was even that one game where I'd worked with a lot of clients in the morning and it was a night game and there was no referee and Abby was playing soccer and one of the other parents started getting mad at our daughter for how she tackled the other girl. I did, I did yell back at that parent. And then you were like, what are you doing? And it's just in that moment, I was losing my mind, but, but I know we, we see it happen a lot. If you have kids and they're in any kind of activities, you see how competitive it can be.

And you've probably also felt that thing what triggers in you, where you feel the need to have long conversations about how they're doing it, how they could do it better. You felt the anger or frustration when the kids aren't practicing enough or not performing well. Yeah, the tension. You feel that tension as a parent. You want your child to do their best and you want them to succeed. And you feel that pressure of how does my child compare?

Yeah. The best on the field, the worst in the field or the best in the dance group or not. You feel that as a parent because you care about your child. You don't want them to, you know, mess up. first I want to start with Sarah. know you have handled it very differently than me. Not, that you've never gotten frustrated, but for the most part, um, um, many listeners may be able to relate to you where they watch and go, why is everyone getting so upset? So how do you go, you know, throughout the years, our kids have played sports.

Throughout the years, our kids have done musicals and acting. They've been involved in scouts. They've done a lot of outside activities. I typically am more often the one who does get frustrated and I'm going to speak to kind of giving these listeners some feedback about what kids have told me, but even what my own kids, our own kids have told me that they like and don't like and would like us to do differently. But how do you do it? How do you watch these events and not feel triggered and not get caught up?

in yelling and getting mad when the kids aren't performing well or whatever? Well, I honestly, I just don't believe that produces anything. Okay. So I think at the end of the day, the kids, the people, humans, I see that are successful in life or get back up and keep trying are the ones that feel encouraged and feel like I can mess up. I can get back up and get back out there.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:23.914)

I'm growing and learning. do that because they feel like someone's in their corner saying, yep, you can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Keep going. Keep trying. And so I just really believe in supporting and encouraging them. And I see the kids out there on the field and the parents yelling and the kid is confused. I've literally watched them. They turned to look at the parent. Then they turned to look back at the coach.

And you can see on their face, who do I listen to? What's happening? And then they're not even focused on, in our case, like soccer, we'll say the ball at their feet. They're focused on the voices yelling at them. And that just seems overwhelming to me. And so I think we need to step out of that, let them try to focus and build the skill. This isn't the time to be instructing.

other times. Do you think, I know as a kid you didn't participate in team sports. I didn't. Whereas I played soccer, I played football, I played tennis. So do you think it helps you? mean, do you think partly the way you're able to look at it this objectively is you don't have this brain wiring about how it's supposed to happen? Yeah, that is true. I don't have any, there's no baggage. There's no, there's not a drop of luggage of my parents of any, because I grew up

I grew up just in a world where we didn't do a lot of sports. so that was not, have, I'm coming into this with nothing. Well you come into it in a much less competitive type framework too. Um, and you're really just about the kid developing learning and all that stuff. Right. So, so I, I think for me that's a, maybe we'd end up at the same spot either way. If you still had that, that history personality is different. But I know my, with my background,

there was a lot of coaches who are yelling at you. My own dad coached me for many seasons in soccer. so typically when I, my memories, I'm sure this wasn't always the way it was, but when I remember looking at the sideline, my dad was typically disappointed or frustrated in whatever I was or was not doing. And I remember sometimes if I played well, I got ice cream after that game. If I, if I didn't do well, then ice cream was off the table. And so, so I think coming into

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our kids playing sports, I was surprised at how it affected me so much and how it almost seemed uncontrollable. I didn't feel like I could control myself watching them. It almost seemed like I was wrapped up into becoming what my dad had been, you know? And I even remember having that thought. I I told you about it when Abby was very little. She's maybe playing soccer at like five years old.

And I remember I just, I was yelling a lot. was constantly yelling at Abby to be focused, to like, you know, watch the ball, stop getting distracted. You know, I was yelling all these things. And I remember specifically having this thought, like, what have I become? How have I become just like when I felt like my dad was on the sideline, even though Abby's not me and I'm not my dad, but it seems like I'm repeating the same pattern. And I was actually mad at Abby that Abby was seemingly making me become my dad.

You know, so it was like my, was telling Abby to be focused to play better. So then I could just let go and just relax. And, I especially felt the pressure if I didn't think her coach was doing a good enough job, right? I didn't trust the coach. So then I had to yell, I had to step in. I needed to make sure she was learning what she needed to learn. And so I just, man, I, I, at that time I did feel very helpless and I almost didn't even enjoy coming and watching the games. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that is a really interesting point. As you're talking, I was thinking, wow, yeah. Even when I listen to the different eyes, I'm, pretty quiet on the sidelines. So I do lots of listening and I notice patterns to what parents yell about certain parents yell about certain things. And some parents yell about other things. And, and so it's very kind of insightful to what is the wire. It's not even about the kid. Cause sometimes they have the same position or the same, whatever that is. It kind of tells me more about.

what that wiring is in that parent. course. Yeah. So that is very interesting just to step back as a parent to go, huh, what is that programming that was given to me as a child from a coach, from a parent, from whatever the situation might've been. Maybe it was highly competitive and it was a, you got to destroy the other guy and to win, whatever that is. Or winning was the most important thing. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:51.566)

Or maybe, maybe it was more about just how you show up. What kind of teammate are you? Just what was, what were the values that were given to you or trained into you? And how does that show up in you on the sideline? Like not even about the child, just how am I showing up and why am I showing up that way? Well, um, I want to eventually get Sarah to where, um, we can help change these dynamics. So if the listener is listening and they're like, Oh yes, I'm totally like that. Or my spouse is like that.

we're going to give you specific tips on how to change that. But first, I think it's really helpful to always start with a couple of things, right? One is, why are we doing these things? You know, what, how come we're prioritizing doing the sports or doing, because most kids are not going to go off and get scholarships doing this stuff. most people don't get involved with it, because they think their kids are going to get a college scholarship. But there are reasons why we do it, you know, and so I want to hit

What's the point of spending the money, the time, even working through this? Because our lives would probably be easier if we did not do all this. For every family, just think of the time you'd have back alone, just the time alone. Yeah, and so there are reasons why we pour money into this. I'm saying all that because there are skills we are wanting our kids to get. And I think that's important for parents to reflect of what is the point of all this? I mean, is it to just do something to do it?

And I think some parents might say that, but as if they stop and think like, no, they have reasons. Like there's reasons why they want, even reasons why they pick the sports they pick. So let's just start for a moment about some of the skills that we think are helpful for kids to learn, right? Because if I get focused on what I'm trying to build, that can really help me understand how to guide the kid towards that. And then also better be more aware of how maybe how I'm reacting is actually undermining.

actually learning that skill. It's sort of, yeah. So we're not even saying everyone should be quiet on the sidelines, so to speak, or don't ever talk to your child about their last dance lesson or whatever it might be. We're not even saying that, but what you're highlighting is we need what helps you is if you have a map. Yeah. And so where are we going? Let's make the map and then I know what I'm

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:5.774)

you know, I'm not just around, can yell. Well, within you're less likely to just react. It's intentional. It's like getting on a road trip and intentionally knowing where you're going, as opposed to getting on a road trip, having no idea where you're going, you know? So when you're putting your kid in activity, I think it's helpful as a couple to sit down or as a single parent and go, what am I hoping the child gets out of this? Right? Because then I can really make my focus intentionally on that. So I think it could be different.

I think one of my, so my driving force is not that they get some college scholarship or play in the Olympics or something like that. That's not my driving force. And I think if that is a parent's driving force, you really need to be aware of that. Cause maybe that's not your child, you know, but I think we kind of know that. Right. So, but my driving force is, I do want them to have fun. I actually, I want them to be around people and having a good time and being, you know,

moving their bodies, enjoy themselves. So those are probably if I'm ranking it, I want, I want the movement. I want the, you know, having joy in this. don't want it to be just work for them. I do want a piece of joy. Otherwise, why are we doing this for me? No. that's number one, probably having fun too. would think just, we think it's healthy.

to get out there, run around, learn a new skill, right? whether it's you're learning how to hit a tennis ball or a golf ball or a soccer ball, you're learning how to dance or sing. Those things can translate to me to other things. So in future environments, maybe they've learned soccer, but hey, it's going to help them do this other physical activity. Maybe they'll pick up a new, I want to golf. You the fact that you've done something does help your body move on to different things when they, you know, as they feel like it. think another one's important to me, Sarah, is learning how to win.

and how to lose, you know, learning how to deal with the feeling of being on a winning team and also the disappointment and loss, or if you're competing or doing a dance competition, you're not always going to win. You're not always going to get first. And so I think, man, that this sports to me was such a great microcosm of learning how to deal with that before the stakes were really high because the stakes are very low. so they're that promotion or you don't, because there always is this piece of I did or I didn't win.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:19.148)

so to speak, but it's like, how do you do that? What character traits do I want to have in those moments? Because you can win poorly. We've seen that happen and you can win and you can lose well. And so it's all about learning the skill on both sides of that. How do I treat myself in those moments and how do I treat other people in those moments? Another one to me, and I think a lot of parents put their kids in sports for this is to learn how to be a teammate. Yeah, for sure. How that the world doesn't revolve around you, that you are working together with a collective.

to be able to accomplish a goal. And in that also working with the coach and the coach, whether the coach is doing a great job or a poor job, it can give the kid an opportunity to be assertive, to talk to the coach, to tell the coach what they like and don't like, or to ask to play certain positions. I mean, I know our daughter just the other day had a coach, had a talk with one of the directors of the musical she's in and just wanted more clarity on how she could get better, to get better roles. And all that I think is...

It's so fantastic. It's so fantastic to be able to learn that in that kind of group dynamic. Another one for me is persistence because in any of these activities, sometimes you're having a, you're having a hard time doing something and sticking with it and having to build that skill or it's hot outside and I'm still going to run around the field, that game and that heat. And so sometimes it is easy and other times it's hard, but I can persist in the hard and it's worth it. Well, like I remember Abby and scouts, man.

camping in below 20 degree weather a few different times and just going, wow, I mean, that is so cool. Why would we ever do this unless Scouts had asked us to do this? No one would ever go camping. And maybe she'll never need to camp. It's not even that. It's that there was a hard thing and you persisted. Yeah. So even though you could get into the minutia of like, oh, Scouts taught her how to build a fire and how to, but that even to me wasn't the point of it. I think these kind of six about that we've covered here, I'm sure there's a few more.

But I just wanted to kind of model an example how you and I would do this. How anytime we're trying to think about what our kids are wanting to be involved in. What's the value? Yeah, what's the value? Why are we doing It's going to cost us time. It's going to cost us money. What's the value of it? What are the goals and the skills that we're wanting our kids to develop and achieve through this activity, instead of just willy nilly doing it just because we thought it'd be fun? Yeah, so what would other people add to that list? Why are they doing this? Why are they taking this portion of their life and

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:44.440)

putting it in this direction. Yeah, we'd love for you to email us that or comment on this about what is it you're hoping your kid will get out of it. So that's the first step. I would say it's important to have that conversation as a couple or just make sure you reflect on it yourself before you get into it so you can make sure you're focused on that because that's going to really help you be more intentional and thoughtful in these moments of conflict when it comes to these things. Yeah, because then you can say, wait, I'm doing this. it getting is it contributing to these these things right here? Yeah.

So then the second one, a big one for me that I've had to reflect a lot on is, is what is the trigger? So what are the fears that pop up that then cause a parent to get so critical or they're, where they're yelling out of their mind on the sideline, screaming at their kid or the coach or some like 12 year old referee kid, know, where does that come from? And I know for us, one of the things that was kind of triggering to us is

when we were both kind of on the same page here, even though you hadn't done team team sports is we wanted our kid to never be the weakest link on the team. Right? Right. So I think anytime we thought our kid was being that in a game, it definitely we would get more and more frustrated because it would be like, what is happening? How can they like they to contribute here? You you step back and you're like at any moment in life, you are going to be the weakest link somewhere.

when you're hired to a new job, you're the weakest link, or you haven't learned anything, you're training. There's all kinds of moments in life where you could be the weakest link. And maybe we need to check our judgment on that. course, of course. It was like, a second. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that was one for us. I think another one was just effort, that there was this trigger of, why are you not practicing more?

Yeah, I mean you say you want to get better. you're in enough effort here. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, we think if you keep saying you want to get better, but somehow you magically think that's going to happen. And so then I think the frustration there was it seemed like the responsibility was on us to somehow, you know, create a space for you to go find practice fun. And in our mind, like practice isn't always fun. Do it anyway. And so, you these kind of judgments we have in our mind of just like, just go do it. And so somehow we

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:0.642)

We wanted the kids to just on a hot summer day to be like, I'm going outside and I'm going to run drills and I'm just going to get better. Or even every time it was time to go do practice, we wanted them to be like, yay, let's go do it. We don't care if it's 108 outside. We never wanted them to give any kind of pushback on that because we just wanted them to have fun and just go like, why can't you just see this as fun? Go make it fun. Yeah. And when it's not fun, I'm doing it because

I'm there for my team. Yeah. And I think a third one for me, if you'll notice all these triggers seem to be mine, which is really happening. But the third one for me was a lack of focus, you know? And so I pride myself on my ability to focus and stay on task. Even though my dad tells me as a kid, I spent a lot of time making holes in the dirt instead of playing the game. But in my mind, no. But see, that's a good example of.

you heard that message over and over and over again. So that's your value. But another kid could have heard a different message and focus was never one of the values that was drilled into them. And so for me, a lot of times I saw the kids distracted or I saw them not trying as hard as I thought they should or being as aggressive as I'd like them to be. Right. Or, you know, being the most valuable person on the team or at least not being the worst on the team. All those things would then cause this anger or frustration to come up.

And so what I'm wanting to kind of point out and be aware of, and just invite our listeners into is that's where the anger, the criticism, the judgment, the shaming, all of that would come from a place of fear that somehow my kid is becoming or turning into something I never wanted to be. actually,

they are turning into the thing you were yelled at for being true. You were yelled at for being that. And so that wiring comes out like, if I see that in you, then I yell at you for that. Or, know, I'm using the word yelling, but it could be judging or criticizing or whatever. Filling in the blank of I wasn't allowed to be that I was told not to be that. So I'm gonna repeat that and do that to you because it's what I know.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:12.492)

Yeah. And it was funny that there were moments. I remember I would typically be pretty upset at Abby for not being focused on the soccer field, but there were moments where I remember she had one coach where that coach was talking to the other coach and said, if she keeps getting distracted, pull her off. And I remember watching it and being like, dang, you're being really mean on after you've been really, but yeah, I was thinking the same thoughts, but it's like, as they said it, since it was external of me, I could see it and go, that doesn't seem very kind. How's that going to help her be a better soccer player? You know?

But these things, Sarah, I we had many conversations and many times the kids would have these conversations to say, dad, we don't like this. We don't like you acting like, even there was some real aha moments where I remember that one season that Abby had where I missed a couple of her games and those were her best games. She performed better in those games. Without the pressure and criticism. And it sounds silly, but it was like, what?

How could that even be possible? I wasn't there. How could she stay focused the whole time? What? Like, oh wait, maybe me being on the sideline being mad makes it harder for her to focus. What? was like mind blowing to me. But, but it was, and then I kind of rationalized it a little bit. Like I thought maybe she played the two weakest teams that season. And that's why I had to like look up the standings and see, see, that, did those teams just stink? Maybe that's what it was.

But there were these aha moments and I'm sure listeners you've had these where you kind of thought, is this helping? Is this actually, is what I'm doing leading to those goals actually being achieved or am I undermining those things I'm wanting to achieve? And maybe you're kind of feeling like you're getting success because I think we keep doing it because for that moment when I yell at them and told them, tell them to focus, they focus for a moment. But I have to realize I'm also doing something else at the same time. Right? So

Maybe when you were a kid and you were digging little circles in the dirt for a second, you were yelled at and you stopped digging in the dirt, but you were also getting wired for the judgment that you're the trigger that you have today. You know, came also in that moment. So you're not just accomplishing, my child got focused for a minute. I'm doing something else too. And do I really, is this really what I want to happen? Um, I remember, I think it's just enlightening for us to, you know, step back sometimes a step out of moments. remember this one, um, soccer team.

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So our kid was playing on one team and the kids were all sitting on the bench and they were all watching. Their coach was pretty, you know, he's like, sit here and you, know, telling everyone and the other team, they were all in the dirt. The kids were playing the game, but the kids not playing the game were digging in the dirt and having a great time. And then when they were called onto the field, they were all dirty dusty running out in the field. And, you could just see right there, you just pause and go, huh, that's interesting.

both of these coaches were successful coaches, right? Or successful as in their teams won. Okay. So we'll define success in this case is their teams, both were high winning teams. One was playing in the dirt and one had their team, you know, and so it's an example of those value systems. I'm not even say which one was right or wrong. I'm just saying to step back and go, huh, okay. Interesting that you could have different values and where, you know, where's mine? And just to pause and think about that and think that in that

both kids were getting another message. Just like you were. And so what are those other messages my child's getting and I'm wiring into my child by what I'm doing? Well, cause even as you're talking, I'm a hundred percent. want the kids sitting down watching the game. I don't want the kids playing in the dirt. That's the good player for you. But then this other guy obviously was like, no, I want my kids, I want them loose. I want them having a good time. They're going to play better. Well, even I, the word I would throw out Sarah that you didn't say that I know you're implying is to be curious.

Right. Yeah, that that I definitely have some confirmation bias if I see a coach with the kids doing what I would do if I coach them and though that team wins then I go see it works. Yeah, but if that if that team lost I wouldn't remember that as much. You know if that team in the dirt won I'd be like that's an anomaly. Yeah, he got lucky that day but like the other coach he's coaching, you know, and I'm probably because that's what I saw with my dad when he coached your other coaches.

For some reason I was taught that was important. Or maybe that's more my personality. It kind of more connects with that. But I want our listeners to just take a moment about these things to be curious. What is it? What's the intent that we're trying to accomplish the goal, the skills. And then when I'm getting upset or my spouse is, or, just even watching people on the side when they are to be curious, what's underneath that, that it's not the kid causing that. You know, Abby didn't cause that. My, son didn't cause that. My Ellie didn't cause that.

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:57.120)

It's something in my history. It's something in my upbringing and my values. That's what's triggering it. And then I'm just spewing that out and saying like, you should all value what I value. You know? So I think it's important to take that and notice that. Now the third part of this conversation is to really give the listeners feedback from what the kids are telling us. From what our... Okay, now here's some things to plug in. Because this has been consistent.

across the board. When I'm seeing kids, I'm seeing a lot of kids over the years where their relationship with their parents is getting hurt. It's getting really damaged. I know at times it's damaged my relationship with our kids because of the ways in which I've reacted about sports or any kind of activity we've been doing. And so I want to give that feedback because when I've heard it, it's been really, really helpful for me to reevaluate.

and try to have a healthier perspective, healthier understanding of what we're trying to accomplish and how to do it. And I've seen you doing this and I see the kids response and it's really, it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. They're responding way different and they're actually receiving your input much more than they were the other way. Well, going back to, yeah, I mean, that's, that's a great point that we'll get to at the end too about if you could remind me about the kids being more receptive, that as you do these things that the kids are saying,

They're actually giving advice saying, if you want me to learn from you, here's how to do that. The way you think I'm going to learn, it ain't working. know? And it's bringing you guys closer together. So it's got all these. so then the conflict is creating this intimacy. So number one thing, I remember this from one of the soccer coaches. He said the number one reason why kids quit sports and other activities is the ride home. And I have heard that consistently from all the kids I work with. The ride home is very uncomfortable.

and they don't look forward to it, especially if they've lost, you or especially if they felt like you're disappointed in them. They feel like the whole right home is gonna be a conversation about what a failure they are, all the ways they messed up and didn't live up to your expectations. Cause they're already probably feeling that. And I don't think people walk away from a game they've lost and feel great. So they're already feeling pretty, uh, and then you're just laying it on. Well, and I know why parents do it. Parents think like, really,

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want to make sure they understand what they didn't do well. But like you're saying, the kid will tell me, I'm already thinking about that. I'm already trying to not make that the main narrative. Like I'm trying to think of other things, but it's just, I sucked. Yeah, because the really successful players are the ones who are able to shake it off. We know that from Ted Lasso, the goldfish, right? The ones who like, I mean, think about it. He talks to him, Peyton Manning throws an interception. The ones who can forget about it quickly.

That's actually funny. Yes, we think that's so backwards. Like, no, we need to replay that. Let's watch that tape about how you did it wrong. It's because most of our parents did that. So we just think it's but we hear these things and go, yeah, I do like that. I don't need someone keep beating me up. I even in marriage, we don't like we messed up. don't need you to keep telling me I messed up. I got it. Like, you know, we had one conversation. Let's drop it. Yeah. So one the ride home, I would encourage every parent to change that. And that's what I'm always trying to get better at. Because it does seem like the kid is trapped.

and you've got them in that moment, you can like unleash all the negativity that you've got unleashed. But they want that ride home to just let's drop the game. Even I heard kids say, Sarah, even they've won, sometimes that can be fun, but then sometimes that leads into a really negative conversation. Next time I'm like, last time we talked, you did this, this, this. I told you. And so sometimes the kids say, I just rather talk about something else. What do you think about just noticing a couple things? It doesn't matter if they win or lose, whatever. Just noticing like, hey,

I noticed you did blah, blah. Way to go. High five. That's what I started doing because I couldn't just keep going. So I would say, Hey, what's something you think you did well this game and what's something you'd like to improve on? So that could be a tactic. That's just a technique to try to keep myself focused on making the connection, making this enjoyable, but also meeting the need I have that I want them to reflect and learn each time they play. So that's gone well. then you, and you don't.

And if you ask that, it's not like, yeah, you do need to do that and this and then you just really let them say it and you're like, okay, cool. Thanks for sharing. You you kind of just leave it real, real neutral. Yeah. Sometimes that's really hard, but I do, I try. Okay. So then, then the second thing the kids say is they actually don't want us yelling at them on the sideline. You know, the kids don't want the parents the whole time telling them what to do. Cause like you said, many of them will say, um,

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even if it's like really positive stuff sometimes it's confusing because they're trying to listen to the coach. And I know every coach we've talked to says it does it confuses the kids. are some coaches who tell their parents no talking. Yeah. Because they're like all the coaching guys should be done in practice. And then the game time is just playing and like in real professional soccer even when coaches are talking the players will say we can't hear a thing the coaches are saying because the crowd is so loud. So so they're as the kids get up and up playing sports more and more they can't even hear the

So you think about dancing all you can't you can't say stuff like that. You you need to have learned it all. Now's the moment where you're showing what you've learned and you'll learn more. So the kids will say that I'd rather you if you're going to say anything it to be positive, encouraging way to go. You did it. That was awesome. it off. Yeah. Yeah. So they don't need us criticizing them. Okay. The third one was I've had some kids whose parents are coaches, you know, and some kids have had positive experience with

Right? But some kids, it has really hurt their relationship. And I know these parents are coaching because they want to be an active part. They want to participate in helping their kid. But sometimes we all know the stories about the coaches kids and how those kids sometimes can get really honed in and zeroed in on and picked on even more because they get more criticized. And I know I'm pointing this one out, Sarah, because I remember I never coached our kids specifically for this reason, because I know I would probably be that coach.

I would have this higher level of expectation on our kids and I figured it would probably hurt our relationship. And there was even the one game, this is super embarrassing to say, but one game where I did get to coach Abby's game, because the coach wasn't going to be there. And I was the assistant coach and I was all excited and I was going to help all those kids be focused. Now they were seven or something like that. I was going to have them all be focused and be the greatest game we've ever played. I was super intense.

I probably did yell at Abby quite a bit that game. And then I remember the opposing coach coming up to me saying, Kyle was great to coach you and coach with you. And I was like, oh, this person seems to know me. And then I noticed the dad and then I noticed their older son and he was one of my clients. And that kid was coming to me because he had had a lot of negative experiences with his dad, yelling at him on sidelines and stuff. And so I was like, oh my gosh.

Kyle And Sara Wester (31:42.658)

What did I do? I'm such a hypocrite. I've been trying to help this kid. And then that kid didn't come see me for like six months. So I was like, Oh my gosh, I've been exposed. I blew it. Yeah, we do. Just so everyone knows we mess up. Yes. And then the kid six months later came back, saw me. I reminded him of, he said, no, I didn't, I was like reading a book or something. He's like, I didn't even notice you did that. You weren't really, but the whole time I was beating myself up. have your moments. so those are the three things I consistently hear.

They don't want to be talking about it the whole time on the way home. Two, they don't want all the negativity or the direction even given. And I even remember my dad giving me great advice on this when Abby ran over to get a throw in one time. I was like, Abby, do this, do this. And she did it. And my dad said, when are you going to let her decide to do that herself? Because she's only doing that because you're telling her. She needs to eventually just do that on her own. And she's going to learn by letting her fail and then the coach

teaching her and that's a big part of it too. didn't but that's a trigger. We just don't want to let our kids fail on the field. know, we don't want them. Yeah, so I didn't even think of that but that's I didn't want Abby to be the kid who didn't know how to do the throw in or get other now the coach is gonna get mad at her. So I'm gonna try to rescue her from all that, you know. So really we want our kids to succeed but part of that's letting them fail on the field and letting the coach correct. Well, and you have a coach for a reason. Let the coach be the coach. You be the parent.

you be that safe because maybe they did have a really bad game or maybe things aren't going well with their coach and you don't want to just be in that circle. You want to be in the parent circle. So the child's coming to you and saying, mom, dad, you know, that game was horrible. Or I feel like I really failed or, know, you want to the parent there. But you know, it's that and wrapping this up, the whole goal in all of that is if we really feel like we have something to offer, like maybe you've played that sport or done that activity.

If you're really wanting the kid to be open and receptive to you, to learn from you, that's awesome, but you actually have to create that type of relationship with them. And if we're just slamming it down their throat the whole time, the kid will actually be closed off to you instead of open to you. And then all the great wisdom, like what you just said, how cool would that be for the kid after the game to actually say, hey, dad or mom,

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:59.800)

what did you notice about how I played? Is there anything you would suggest I could do better? Or did you notice anything I did really well? And they were just like wanting your input. Right, because they see you in their corner with them and knowing you're going to build them up with this conversation. And how, going back to the things we want them to get from these activities, that's one I'd want them to get, is that I'm always in your corner. And anytime you're doing any activity, I'm in your corner and if you mess up,

Even if you're the worst kid on the field, I'm in your corner, right? That's the people we want in our life. It's easy to have people in your life when you're on the top of your game. I mean, who's there when you're in the, you know, the bottom? That's the people we want. Well, so I hope that's helpful to you, especially as you find yourself in the throes of spring activity season. We hope that you take a moment with your spouse or just with yourself to reflect upon those things. What are the skills and goals?

that I'm wanting to hopefully help my kid acquire or get through these activities to what is it triggering in me and what ways is fear and anger and shame a part of this element? And how can I co-create this activity with them? How can I get feedback from the kid about what they like and don't like? I would encourage you to even have that conversation about what's some things you like that I do that help you and what are some things.

that I'm doing that aren't helping you. And just be open to that feedback. It'll blow the kids mind. When we do this, when I do this with kids and parents, the kids feel so, so thankful. And the last part I would say is if you do feel like this is causing a big problem and you would really like some help with some coaching on how to switch these, definitely reach out to me at Kyle at artofraisinghumans.com. And I'd love to set up a Zoom call with you real short and we can discuss ways I can help you change these dynamics in your family.

So I really hope this supported you share it with your friends, comments, like review and all that stuff. Be so helpful and we will talk to you soon. Have a great day.

Kyle And Sara Wester (35:59.702)

So let me do the intro.

Kyle And Sara Wester (36:8.110)

I think every parent wants their kids to be successful. I think we all want our kids to grab ahold of some sport or some activity they fall in love with and really find that they're good at, right? And really feel a sense of confidence and self-esteem that they can succeed. I think all of us love to see that in our kids' faces, but all too many times that doesn't happen. Too many times what the kids see in our faces is disappointment, frustration,

that they're having these long lectures with us about how they're not doing it well enough or need to do better because we feel wrapped up in the competition of comparing our kids with other kids or are we giving them enough support to like be the best on that team or in that activity. So there's a lot of negative self-talk and a negative interactions and conflict that end up occurring with our kids. And eventually some of these kids end up like hating being a part of it and they regret ever doing it.

And so in today's podcast, we're going to talk about how to get out of that spiral, how to get out of that dance to make this, these activities a really positive way to connect with your kid and become closer with your kid. And if you haven't already, please stop right now. And if you're getting help from these podcasts, we'd love to hear your comments. We want to continue to raise that, um, um, the review rates, because that helps more and more families find this kind of stuff. And, know, you've seen the sidelines, you know, more parents need

podcast like this to help those moments be healthier instead of more and more toxic. So I hope you'll take a moment to do that and that you'll enjoy the podcast today.

Kyle And Sara Wester (37:50.382)

I have an idea.