Episode 157

Beyond Rewards and Punishment: A Conversation with Alfie Kohn 

April 28, 2025

In this thought-provoking episode, Kyle and Sara Wester sit down with renowned author and speaker Alfie Kohn—a powerful voice challenging traditional ideas about parenting, discipline, education, and motivation.

Alfie doesn’t hold back as he dives into the unintended consequences of using rewards, punishments, and even praise with children. His insights, grounded in decades of research, have radically reshaped how countless parents and educators approach behavior and discipline.

This conversation is equal parts challenging and inspiring—and yes, it even moved Sara to tears. Why? Because Alfie doesn’t just critique outdated approaches—he paints a compelling picture of what’s possible when we parent with unconditional love, curiosity, and trust.

In this episode, Kyle and Sara explore:

• Why rewards and punishment may undermine intrinsic motivation

• How praise can backfire—and what to do instead

• What it looks like to support children’s autonomy and growth

• How schools and families can foster genuine cooperation, not compliance

Listeners will walk away with not only a deeper understanding of why traditional discipline falls short, but how to do things differently—and more effectively.

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About Our Guest:

Alfie Kohn is the author of 14 influential books, including Punished by Rewards, Unconditional Parenting, The Myth of the Spoiled Child, and The Schools Our Children Deserve. He’s been featured on Oprah, The Today Show, and numerous other national platforms. His work has helped parents and educators across the globe rethink what it truly means to raise and teach children with respect and connection.