Episode 204

Episode 204 Transcript:

How to give the right consequences. ⁓ What are the best consequences to give in this situation or that situation? You so many parents are confused and wrestling with what is the magical consequence to just change my kid and get them to stop doing that thing. You know, we started tackling this subject last week in our first part one episode of Consequences, but today we're gonna dive into the four most common mistakes we see parents ⁓ falling into whenever they're using Consequences.
But then also we want to give you clear ⁓ direction. If you're going to use consequences, there are healthy ways to do that. ⁓ There are healthier ways to partner with your kids in learning from consequences. But all too often the kids aren't learning from them. They're just feeling really bad about themselves. And that leads to a lot of like power struggles, disconnection in your relationship with them. They start withdrawing from you. And to be honest with you, they start to really dislike themselves.
So we want to help equip you with just understanding this topic in a new way, but also to equip you specifically with the steps to take and how to avoid the mistakes that parents so often make. ⁓ so if you haven't already, please take a moment to pause, rate, review this podcast. We'd love to see the five star reviews. Love it when you share it with other friends who are asking these questions. Cause I know, ⁓ you know, parents who are asking these questions, right? What are the consequences? So we really wanted to dive in and take two whole podcasts just to talk about the subject. So
I hope you take a moment to sit back and listen to the second part ⁓ of the bigger conversation we're having on consequences, ⁓ and I'm sure you're gonna enjoy the discussion.

Kyle Wester (0:1.102)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there, I'm Sarah. And Sarah, today we're doing part two of Consequences. That work. Right? Yes. Consequences. If you haven't listened to the podcast the week before, go ahead and pause right now. Go back and listen that where we're going to tackle the conversation of what are consequences, should we be doing consequences as parents. we just, that conversation was so rich, so deep, ⁓ really wanted to make this a two-part.
Right? So the first one we wanted to dive into natural consequences and ⁓ logical or we like to call imposed consequences, right? ⁓ And kind of define those. And then today we wanted to get into like the four mistakes, the four real common mistakes we see parents make a lot of times on this subject when it comes to consequences. Really, really important to kind of just have our eyes open to. Yeah. Cause I think like we said in the last episode, this comes up all the time. It's like one of the most common questions every time we do a parenting group. ⁓
knows that you're talking with your mom friends you're at the park at a group or reading books everything entire books dedicated to consequences well we know this episode be dropping near the end of March so we do want to remind you that Tina Payne Bryson is coming to Tulsa she's gonna be speaking at Riverfield on Monday April 13th we don't have specifics on the time when the general like parents can come listen ⁓
⁓ Look at all our so be fun because you do not want to miss that. She's a fabulous speaker She'll do a fantastic job and we look forward to sharing our time with her that we had in San Diego with her and dr Siegel when we were learning so much great stuff about the whole brainchild 2.0 and so we're gonna share that later episodes, but today we want to dive into consequences So first let's just define little recap. Okay, so natural consequences The way we would define it is these are consequences that have no parent interference ⁓
laws of nature or just relationships. ⁓ They just are things that happen without any adult stepping in. And even though they are really effective, they're only effective if we're not adding a bunch of guilt, a bunch of shame, like, because I've seen parents do that too where they're like, well, that's the natural consequences. You shouldn't have, you know, I told you, bring your goat and like all those kinds of conversations pile on. Yes. And that distracts from the lesson their brain was trying to learn. ⁓

Kyle Wester (2:17.280)
Now they're thinking about how upset their parent is and all of that instead of learning the lesson, just recap. Well, and I love, ⁓ Dr. Becky Bailey talks about that's a great time for empathy because empathy really is the sugar that helps the medicine go down. So think of the natural consequences like the medicine the kid's taking, but you actually being there to support them in their sadness, in their disappointment or frustration, that's actually gonna help them remember the consequence better and then learn from it. I mean, I think every parent is, no, I gotta...
You know, can't double down on it. Yeah. And they'll just think it's fine. And we're not saying rescue. Yeah. But we're saying be there just like you would with your friend. Yeah. Right. If your friend, Hey, I just did this and this and I'm really regretting it because of this. It's the way that you would show up in that relationship. You show up for your kid. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other consequence that's typically talked about is logical, or we like to use the word imposed consequence. And basically we're defining it as
it's parent created outcomes that are directly related to the behavior. Okay, so we dive into that more in the past one, but we just wanted to make sure we kind of give a quick review of that so that now we can dive into the four biggest mistakes that we see parents making. So if we're aware of them, can work to avoid them as much as possible. Especially on this topic, because it isn't a black and white topic. It isn't just a one note topic. It is a more nuanced conversation.
And so if we're going to actually use this as a tool, our tool belt, let's do it effectively without damaging our relationship. Okay. ⁓ So mistake number one, I mean, this is the most obvious one. I'm sure everybody listening to this podcast has been there. I know in my mind has jumped here as well ⁓ is the consequence ⁓ is disguised ⁓ as punishment. Okay. So like, for instance, I hear this from kids all the time, you know, ⁓ there'll be some kind of like mistake made on the phone.
And you know, the parents are upset about it and the parents didn't just take the phone and they'll be like, well, that's a consequence of them doing it. And I'll ask the kid, do you know when you're getting the phone back? The kid says, no. Do you know what they want you to learn? ⁓ No, they're just mad at me. And they'll say, they're going to keep the phone until I learn a lesson. And like the kids, don't even know what the lesson I'm supposed to learn is. Other than that, I was bad. I did something bad. Right? Right. Yeah. Really? It's a punishment. Yeah. In disguise. Yes. We're saying it's, it's a consequence. But really if you look under

Kyle Wester (4:37.262)
behind the curtain, it's really just a punishment. So that's like, you got to pause for a second and think, is this a consequence or am I really just slipping in a punishment there? Yeah. And so some examples, like I said, are long, long drawn out groundings that are happening, taking unrelated privileges away. I mean, like that, that's super confusing to kids too, because they're like, I don't even understand what that had to do with it. You know, like there really was a couple I was coaching or speed was coaching where like the kid did something
Spoke to them in a way they didn't like and then they couldn't go to the retreat that weekend and it was a consequence of what they said We do this one a lot guys as parents with taking screens away phones away, you know, it's like you yelled at me Give me your phone. What does it have to do? know, you've got a bad grade. Give me your phone. Yes, you know, it's like it comes a go-to consequence Yeah, and especially among that teen group, but you know the groundings often it's very hard to actually see
a real connection between grounding a kid, not to say there can't be, but we tend to use grounding or moving those kinds of things. Well, typically the way the kid sees it, Sarah, when I'm talking to him is they see the dots when they're connecting it. It's like whatever my parent thinks I like, they just take that away. You know, so the goal is to use that as Not connected to what I did wrong. It's just whatever I like. to what I like. Yeah, it could be my friends. It could be going to that activity. ⁓
And honestly, that's a lot of parenting messages out there. I remember early on when I was getting trainings, that was actually a training I did get. was like, the pain point, find this thing the kid really likes. And now I look back on that and, it grieves me. But at that time, a long time ago, I remember getting that training. I find out what the kid really cares about and that's the thing you take away. No matter what they did wrong. And then what the kid just starts doing is not caring about things.
or at least not telling you what they care about because they know get taken away. Yeah. So I just feel like, man, I didn't the amount of the relationship that that hurts is so big. Yeah. And then another part of that is just when we deliver this stuff in anger. So no matter what you do, even if it is like a directly related consequence, if you're delivering an anger, the kid doesn't perceive it as helpful. The kid doesn't perceive it as something that's teaching a skill.

Kyle Wester (6:58.030)
they just perceive it as punishment because the way in which it's delivered is important. And these are, what I try to keep in mind, Sarah, is if my goal in imposing anything on our kids, if it is to just make them feel bad or almost like hurt you because you hurt me, that's a punishment. It's not It's kind of retaliation or a you were bad so this must happen to you kind of thing. We're taught that.
⁓ Growing up we're taught someone does something bad something bad needs to happen to them Yeah, So it's really hard because that wiring is in your brain. So you're just operating from us Well, and we want to point out just the incongruence or the the way that doesn't make sense if I can say it that way is The point of the consequences if you're gonna use those they're meant to teach accountability They're meant to help the kid take responsibility but punishment is often driven just by emotion and control and anger and it's not about a
You know, because really the kid isn't taking accountability. You are by getting mad and punishing them. That's true. So common mistake number one that we see a lot is using consequences, but disguising it as punishment. It's like disguised. It's punishment disguised. Yeah. Thank you. can get mistake. Number two is consequences without connection. Tell me more about that. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even think this ties to the yelling, but if I haven't
I need to always start with connection. You know, we say this all the time, ⁓ but if, if my boss would come to correct me on something, if a friend was going to say, Hey, that's always going to be received much better. If I feel like this person's for me, we have a good relationship. ⁓ It's the same with our kids. need to first make sure our connection is strong. You know, I need to deal with myself and I need to go in with connection.
and then try to move into that space. It should have that foundation of we are connected, you know I'm for you. Yeah. So we really want in these moments, Sarah, what you're saying is our kids to be open and receptive, right? Open to what? To learning, to getting feedback, to reflecting. I mean, one of the most powerful things you're gonna do as a parent is you're gonna need to get into the habit of being able to sit down with your kid and reflect upon

Kyle Wester (9:15.657)
actions that were taken, things that were said, right? Because this is how all humans grow and learn. ⁓ And if there's consequences without connection, I'm just telling you that the proof is in the pudding. I've seen that these kids don't want to talk afterwards. The kids believe. There's no relationship. Yeah, there's no, so the kid believes like the kid will say, I just wish they'd get it over with. You know, I just wish they would just dole out whatever they're gonna do. And then I can pay, I can do my time ⁓ in prison or whatever it is. I can pay my price.
And then I can move on, but the kid isn't being taught to like reflect and the doesn't want to, because the kid doesn't think there's any reflection needed. There's so much shame in it. Yes. Like what? can sit around and think of how horrible I am. Yes. And really what Sarah was saying earlier is that connection, both in our marriage, but with our kids, when we're doing that, it creates safety for the kid to get up to that prefrontal cortex, to get to that space and you as well as the parent to where
we're able then to really learn from this moment. So even if there is an imposed consequence or there is a natural consequence, ⁓ if you're really wanting your kid to change that behavior, this is the only way to do it, is through the connection. if you were gonna get really mad at me and just push me away and basically give me a consequence out of anger, ⁓ I would feel ashamed or I'd feel mad at you.
Right? And I feel like it's unfair. And I'm not sitting there thinking like, what can I learn from this? How can I do this better? ⁓ And if you want your kid to get into the just the practice, the habit, the discipline of like, yeah, you make mistakes, you mess up, but then you reflect and you learn and you grow. But they're not going to do that ⁓ on their own in their room. After some consequences been doled out out of anger, right? Yeah, they're just going to call a friend and complain to their friend or
If they're little, they're just going to go in and just be mad at themselves and talk to themselves in a negative way, right? And that's where a lot of that negative self-talk like, why did I do that? I can't believe I did that. Mom and dad are so mad at me, right? Yep. Yep. Because it just puts them in a different part of their brain, not the learning growing. Yes. So consequences without connection. That's mistake number two. Now let's move on to mistake number three that ties perfectly into that ⁓ is when consequences create ⁓ shame. know, there's a powerful difference every parent needs to understand.

Kyle Wester (11:31.022)
Okay, so if you haven't heard this before, basically shame says in our brain, in our kids' brain, ⁓ I am bad. You know, I am wrong. I am broken. There's something messed up with me. But accountability just says, I made a mistake and I can learn from that. I can grow. I can repair. Yeah, that's that whole, I mean, it's beautiful, right? We all make mistakes. It's part of the human condition. ⁓ And if we slip into I'm a horrible person now,
that's again not where we're gonna grow and learn and so we want our kids to be learning that all the way they're growing up and we're that little voice telling them that that it's not your bad it's okay let's look at this you made a mistake let's own it let's figure out what we need to do about it and that's gonna be done with calm not with shaming and i think it's really easy to slip into shame i think a lot of us were probably shamed at some point by somebody ⁓ and some caregiver in our lives
And so sometimes that just like hits, you know, your face sends this, you're an awful person, you know, ⁓ instead of, you made a mistake, little human, let's, let's go fix that. Well, and the way you know this is happening is if you're imposing consequences and then your kid is withdrawing from you. Yeah. Your kid isn't wanting to open up to you. Your kid isn't wanting to be vulnerable because really the goal, what's like we said earlier, if you're going to use consequences, the healthy, the healthy consequences should
always lead to the child feeling empowered ⁓ and free to take responsibility. But shame never invites them into doing that because it just says you're bad. It doesn't say like we can learn from this. It just says like there's something wrong with you. ⁓ And that's all too often what is actually being expressed intentionally or unintentionally by the parent in these moments. Because maybe
they're thinking that or maybe that's the voice in their own head and then they're passing it on to their kids. So if you really want to raise kids who make mistakes and take responsibility for ⁓ them, ⁓ you can't use consequences ⁓ like connected to shame, okay? Because that's gonna be, it's just gonna, think of it like I like how that word, when consequences create shame, it's like when the consequences are growing, these shameful thoughts in their head or the shameful way of talking to themselves, you know? ⁓ Okay, so that's.

Kyle Wester (13:47.714)
That's mistake number three. So now let's move on to mistake number four. Okay, mistake number four. This is lots of times what we're running into when we're talking to parents too, besides like them being used as punishment. It's just the overuse of them. know, like, mean, we hit this upon the previous podcast, but consequences guys are positive and negative. They're happening all the time. And that's what I'm telling parents, like that we don't really talk much about consequences is because they're happening every moment, you know, like.
Like if I didn't eat breakfast, then I'm hungry later. Or I ate that good breakfast, I feel great today. You know, whatever. Maybe I drank too much coffee and now I'm jittery or whatever that might be. There's consequences happening all the time, but what ends up happening, consequences become this negative conversation and then this like one trick pony that's supposed to solve every problem. If we could just come up with the magical and genius consequence, it would solve all our problems.
And we know that's not happening. That's why it's a continued conversation because there aren't magical consequences that just make children become amazing humans. They just have to grow and they have to mess up and they have to fix it and they have to do things. and, ⁓ and, ⁓ and I think it completely distracts what you were saying from the actual consequences that happen. We're always doling out consequences, even if they're meant to be helpful, ⁓ then the kid doesn't see the consequence. Cause no matter what your child's doing, there's a consequence.
⁓ And to raise their awareness, to be looking for that, I liked this outcome, I didn't like that outcome. ⁓ I want my child to learn how to do that on their own, and that's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of time, but that's a skill that's gonna serve them for their whole life. If they're just living life trying to avoid a consequence that's being put on them, that's gonna distract from their ability to notice the consequences already happening all the time. And what we weren't taught as kids, or even like what most parents haven't been taught.
is that consequences don't build skills by themselves. ⁓ Okay, so like, ⁓ if the goal is for the kid to learn and do it differently next time, I would ask the question, what is the skill being taught? You know, and most times parents don't even know or can't articulate what the skill is they're trying to teach. ⁓ I'll ask the kid, the kid doesn't know what they're supposed to be learning other than I'm bad, or I did something wrong, I upset them, and they're just confused. Like, how are we supposed to change this if we're not building a skill? And so if a kid, if a child doesn't yet,

Kyle Wester (16:8.270)
have regulation, like they're feeling upset, they're angry, that means they're closed off. If they're closed off, they're not gonna be flexible, they're gonna be rigid, and they're not gonna be able to problem solve the situation with you, right? And so, don't lean into more consequences are gonna magically, all of a sudden, create this change, because they're just not going to. They're just gonna create a dance where the kid's like, yeah, yeah, give it to me, give it to me, I'll get it done, then I can move on, you know? So consequences, they can, I want you to, they can support learning.
but they are not the primary teacher. ⁓ They're just not. you're late for curfew, it's time management, it's thinking ahead. ⁓ If you're fighting and are hitting a kid, then it's, need to learn how to regulate. I need to learn conflict resolution. I need to know what to do when, you know, so ⁓ always first start with ⁓ what happened here. You didn't get your homework done or your room isn't clean. Look at those things ⁓ because that's the development of the skill.
Yeah, and if consequences are your only tool, you're working way too hard. So I love that quote. ⁓ Just remember this, okay? ⁓ Skill building, co-regulating, proactive teaching and coaching, all of those most come first. Okay? So if we're really going to be effective in changing the behavior, those must come first. So here's some red flags just to be noticing. ⁓ A consequence is drifting into punishment if one, it creates humiliation. Okay? You can typically see it on your kid's face, but okay, number two, it's delivered with anger.
Number three, it's meant to quote unquote make a point. Okay, if you're trying to make a point that's lecturing that's typically shaming ⁓ And for if it disconnects the relationship, so if the kid is pulling away the kid is less receptive to you not more open ⁓ Then now you're slipping in to punishment. Okay, so We love accountability, but accountability invites growth and shame will always shut that down Yes, ⁓ So now say now we've talked about the four mistakes
Let's talk about how to use consequences in a way that's helpful and can bring about positive change in your kids behavior. Yeah. So how do we construct these in a great way? So first we'll start with the regulation rule. So the regulation rule is this before we even talk, before you even talk about what consequences ⁓ that you want to use, we have to start here. Okay. Number one, adult composure is foundational. So if you are delivering this ⁓ without composure,

Kyle Wester (18:32.194)
You're dysregulated, you're mad, you're feeling that, errr, ⁓ you're seeing the kid as the problem. Those are all clues that this isn't gonna be helpful. Yep. Yep, and that's a tough one. don't wanna, that's really hard. ⁓ We have to, that practice, that building our own skillset of calming myself down, regulating myself, and then going back to my child. That's all that internal work that I'm keep doing, keep doing, keep doing. Yeah.
Yeah, and I think what that does too, leads to when we're dysregulated, it really tells a lot about us, but that's kind of how we think we can change ourselves too, is by getting mad at ourselves, right? And what that actually does, it actually leads to stagnation, that we actually don't change, know? People who just hate how they look, so they're gonna go die and lose weight, like that typically they end up gaining more weight back after they do it, right? It's like, it doesn't actually bring long-term change. ⁓ So we wanna make sure adult composure is foundational, and remember that a calm brain teaches...
but a reactive brain always escalates. It's like pouring fire, ⁓ mean, know, lighter fluid on the fire. It's just gonna grow it. And if our child is highly dysregulated, which you can tell by looking at them, ⁓ consequences should always wait. That conversation does not need to happen right then because regulation's first, teaching is second. Yeah, one of my favorites is this is not an emergency. Yeah. ⁓ You know, we think we have to address it right now. It actually is okay.
it's actually probably gonna be a whole lot better for everybody to circle back around later. ⁓ So ⁓ then once you're in that space where you're calm and then we can briefly ⁓ explain okay ⁓ is ⁓ when we're dysregulated that the brain stem ⁓ we don't want the brain stem dominating right so in this conversation with our kids we can explain that we don't want that happening okay we want the limbic system
⁓ To be less reactive so we don't want to be there if we're in the limbic system We're just gonna be reacting to every eye roll the kid does or every time the kid isn't Seemingly joyful about this consequence or open to it, but the prefrontal cortex then will be online Okay, so we want to make sure that that's that's the whole point of getting calm and we can teach that to the kid You can teach that to the teenager, you know, lots of parents like the talk we had a few weeks ago, sir They were talking about well, what if I'm talking about going to separate rooms, but then the kid is

Kyle Wester (20:45.688)
throw in a gigantic fit in the room. And I'd say, I don't think the kid understands, like you haven't explained yet what we're doing that for, ⁓ right? I love that you want to calm down first, but did we explain that to the kid that's what we're doing? Because to the kid, it seems like another consequence, you Like you got upset at me, you sent me to my room, but it's like, explain to them. No, I want us to be able to get out of our brain stem. I want to get past the limbic system. I want to get up to the prefrontal cortex where now we can be regulated and actually learn and grow and teach.
⁓ I think kids love this. ⁓ They can understand it at a pretty young age. They can understand, we're really upset. The conversations aren't going to go really well. So let's take care of ourselves. Sometimes we're doing that together. Sometimes we're maybe taking a moment apart. ⁓ But the goal is just to get ourselves in this great place again and relaxed. And so it's not even I'm taking myself away because I'm a bad person. It's just this.
Oh, yeah. Okay, let's get to a good place and then we can come back and talk and it's gonna be more helpful and kids can understand that. Yeah, and they actually they want it. They like it. Yeah, do. They don't mind learning from it. They just don't want people yelling in lecture room. And sometimes they're almost better than we are. Yes, seeing it and noticing it and going, Oh, let's take a break here. Yeah, because it feels most uncomfortable to them. Yeah. But now, Sarah, I want to share this. So this is a fantastic filter. You came up with this magnificent
where you're gonna, we're gonna give you an acronym, okay? Dr. Siegel. Dr. Siegel loves to do acronyms, but Sarah came up with acronym just for you, just for our audience. And the acronym is ART because we are the art of raising humans. So we want you to run, when you're thinking about, you know, if you're gonna like impose some consequences, okay, or you're thinking about this idea, kind of filter it through the art, right? Okay, so here's the art, okay, this is great, you're gonna love it. So A, is it appropriate and related?
to the behavior, right? So think of it, is it appropriate and related to the behavior? So we gave an example before ⁓ is like, okay, the kid was throwing the toys and now I'm going to put the toys away, right? So that seems really appropriate, seems really related, okay? Or the kid was on the screens longer than they were supposed to be, right? And so maybe we're going to give the screens a break for a few days, right? And so that's where I can deliver that without anger. It's respectful, it's related.

Kyle Wester (23:1.262)
Yeah, know the kids to their age, you know, and the expectations there. So the second thing is, is it so this the are, is it respectful in tone and delivery? You know, so am I regulated? Am I staying calm? Am I making sure I don't think my kid is the problem? They're not a shaming tone. they're not a bad kid because they did that. Instead, we're just going to remove the screen for a few days to and I'm going to articulate this. We have done this with our youngest before.
I'm just like, hey, I think for a bit, take a break from it. seems like the screen is just sucking in way more than I think we'd like. And so let's just give it a break, let our brain reset. And it's coming from a place of genuine concern, right? Yeah. We can talk about how far our brain and our eyes and what the screens do. But even then, Sarah, I'm thinking like when our youngest did that where she was on it longer than she said she was going to be, I didn't focus on she was dishonest, she was lying, she was being sneaky. We know screens are pretty I just know they're like,
Self-control is hard. It's hard. It's hard to put it down. So I'm like, hey, let me help you with that. But she knew the reason why it went away. So I want to learn this skill. I want to figure out this. tried to even in that I told her like when the screen comes back, here's how I want us to use it. Right. And then she was able to show me she could. So she'd be like, I give her an opportunity. Hey, watch three blueys and then turn it off and give it back to me and say, thank you, dad. Right. And she did. And I was like, dude, did you feel that? That was great. Like the screen doesn't own you. Look at you. You're free. And we had that conversation, but it was all very respectful.
It was all very related. And then the T is, is it actually teaching a skill for next time? So that is very key. You have got to know what is the skill. So like in that example of the screen and Bluey and the skill was self-control. The skill was the ability to stop ⁓ the show when we agreed to stop it, right? Or it could be with a phone, right? So the phone is a powerful device. It's a tool that very easily sucks a lot of adults in, much less kids. So what is the skill? Is the skill to...
⁓ You speak differently when you're messaging your friends. Like how do we do that? Is the skill to have a healthy relationship with social media and maybe they slipped into an unhealthy relationship. What does it look like to have a healthy relationship with social media, right? ⁓ All these different things, you have to be able to understand what the skill is to then be able to teach the skill. And the kid may not even know that there is a skill needed there. ⁓ All they know is they upset you because they failed at doing something, but they're not clear what that is. ⁓ So going back, art, A-R-T, Sarah, you're brilliant.

Kyle Wester (25:24.564)
Is it appropriate and related? Is it respectful in tone and delivery? And is it actually teaching the skill? Okay. So maybe another example might be, ⁓ you're having the, we'll word it this way. You're having trouble using the iPad safely. The iPad is going to go to re gonna go take a rest for today. Like this might be talking to a little kid and you can try it again tomorrow. So that's, that's kind of what we did. I like to use a lot of words of like being free with devices. I want to make sure that the device doesn't own us.
⁓ We always give our kids ⁓ the freedom to tell us if they think we're too connected to our devices, right? ⁓ So that's a big one. But the reason why this works is because it's calm, it's predictable, and it's connected. And kids will then be able to learn, grow, and change because of that. Okay, so children, ⁓ let's talk about like some ages, Sarah, like children under about three.
often don't fully grasp this concept. So, so if you're going to talk about consequences below three, they don't really get that because, because they can't relate. Relatively link the action to the outcome. So ⁓ you'll know like cause and effect is difficult. Yeah. Cause like your prefrontal cortex. ⁓ That's why they want to drop food off their high gravity. Cool. Yes. Yeah. So, and you'll say, don't do that. And then you'll immediately see them do it. It's because their brain is going, ⁓ how does this work?
this cause and then what happens afterwards and we think it's like this rebellious thing that's happening but it's their brain wiring cause and effect so we can't have this expectation on them well it's also realized we're gonna deliver yeah we talked about the idea of this is helping them connect dots and three-year-olds just their brain is yeah they're they don't yet see patterns and so about four on up they can start doing that right so instead you're gonna distract them you know redirect to different things yeah so toddlers like you're saying mostly
just preventing redirecting elementary age, some safe natural consequences plus some simple imposed ones. ⁓ And then with teens, there you really want to start collaborating with them and problem solving. I've done this effectively with teens, Sarah, when I'm coaching parents is like, ⁓ we'll talk about what should the outcome be here and the kid will be able to collaborate and say, I think if they did that, that would help me learn that skill, right?

Kyle Wester (27:38.318)
⁓ But you're really wanting to lean more on those natural consequences, those natural outcomes with them because they're going to be leaving your house ⁓ and ⁓ you're not going to be there to impose stuff on them. like, don't want that external control. You're really focused on building that internal sense of who am I? How am I going to show up? What am I going to do? So you really want to collaborate. That collaboration is super important and try to take yourself out of managing their life. Yeah. So in kind of wrapping up, I hope this really helped.
make this conversation much more nuanced, helped you give an imagination ⁓ and like a different perspective on what consequences can look like. Also, Sarah and I talked about in our home, it's just never really a discussion because we feel like there's so many other things that could be done way before that. But if you're gonna use those in your home, we just hope it gave you a roadmap to do that. So ⁓ I want you to maybe take away from this, that you don't have to choose between being permissive and being harsh. Those aren't your only options, okay?
The goal isn't to make your kids pay for their mistakes. Okay, that's not the goal. Nobody likes that, okay? ⁓ It's to help their brain learn from the mistakes ⁓ in the context of a safe relationship. And when we can do that, that's really where the goal is. That's where the real growth and the change happens. So remember, it all starts first with us being regulated, ⁓ which makes learning ⁓ actually possible. And if you aren't regulated,
The only learning is I'm a bad kid. I'm a bad person. Like there's really no change that's going to happen from that. So we really would love for you to continue to like make sure with this podcast, if it's helping you, we love hearing your feedback. Let us know more about how you, the, how you do consequences in your home. If this really helped you see it differently, that really encourages us because we love making this content for you, but obviously it's work that we do. It's time to put together these episodes for us to think what's most helpful to our audience. So also in that,
You know, we made this because we get so much feedback about this kind of stuff. So feel free to send us a comma, email us or put it down at the podcast, give us a five star review and say, Hey, I'd love to hear more about this topic. And then we will see that. And then we'll make a priority to make a podcast about that in the future. And so we definitely appreciate you listening and following along and continuing to embrace growing as a parent and letting us be on that journey with you. So we hope you have a wonderful day.