Episode 203

Episode 203 Transcript:

Almost every parent that we work with or every group we get to talk to, we hear the question, ⁓ what are the consequences? All of us are wanting to know what the consequences are ⁓ to use to effectively get our kids to do stuff, right? To motivate them to do things differently, you know? So in today's episode, we're tackling something many parents have just expressed confusion about. Because if consequences actually worked the way we've been told,
many of us wouldn't feel or still be so stuck in the same power struggles that we have with our kids. ⁓ And so today we wanna tackle the subject of consequences. We're gonna make this a part one and in part two, we're gonna really break down the mistakes that we see parents making on a regular basis when it comes to consequences. ⁓ So we want to make sure that we do a deep dive into what consequences are, what different types of consequences that parents tend to implement.
ways in which they could be helpful, ways in which they could be hurtful. And I think this would be really, really helpful just to increase the conversation on this topic instead of just making it so one note, right? It is a nuanced topic and I think you're gonna really enjoy understanding and seeing it in a more multifaceted way. So if you haven't already, please take a moment to pause, ⁓ rate, review the podcast, ⁓ check us out on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, other places that we're gonna be like.
Delving into this conversation more through our social media and kind of just like having a deeper conversation We'd love to hear your comments about how you feel about consequences. Is that something you use all the time? Is it something you never use right? ⁓ we definitely want to engage that conversation with you ⁓ and Look forward to getting that feedback from you And if you ever are saying man, I want to ⁓ do this parenting journey a little different Reach out to me if you want some parent coaching at Kyle at art of raising humans
⁓ I'm only taking a select few numbers of parents to do the parent coaching journey with, and I'd love to talk with you and see if you and your spouse would love to do that with me. So without further ado, get ready for that conversation on consequences. And here we go.

Kyle Wester (0:1.304)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there everyone, I'm Sarah. And Sarah, today we're gonna tackle the subject of consequences. Yeah. You know, we got to do a really fun speaking event the other day ⁓ with some parents at a local school ⁓ and that came up quite a bit, right? I mean, as soon as we start talking about parents, a lot of parents are like, what consequences? What do we need to be doing? Like when a kid does that, you gotta do something.
to cause the kid to do. And you want to make sure you're getting it right. Yes. You know, like not too harsh, but yeah, it makes an impact. Yeah. So today we're going to do a really comprehensive dive into the subject of consequences to really just help you ⁓ just understand it better. Kind of where it comes from, how we see it, ways in which it could be implemented in both positive and negative ways. ⁓ But I wanted to tell you, we got some exciting news coming up on April 13th. Tina Payne Bryson is coming to Tulsa for sure.
So I know in previous episodes we've talked about she was gonna come in January. It's been in the works. We finally got that ⁓ finalized and ⁓ there is definitely going to be an evening parenting event going on over at Riverfield. So if you're local, definitely keep watching our Instagram and our Facebook and those kind of feeds where we'll put information on there. But we would love to see you there. So if you're listening to this podcast and you wanna hang out with Tina Payne Bryson.
She's gonna be fantastic. We just got to hang out with her in San Diego for the Whole Brain Child 2.0 conference that we went to. And we've got so much down the pipe that we're gonna share with you that Dr. Dan Siegel and Tina Payne-Brierson shared with us at that conference. But April 13th, definitely mark your calendar for that. And also check us out on YouTube. Today we're looking sharp, right? I mean, I've got...
We were dressed in black and now I got a colored shirt. But if you aren't checking out video, I'm a YouTube guy. I love to watch YouTube. So if you want to watch this podcast, we're there on YouTube. So check us out over there. Okay. So without further ado, ⁓ let's dive into this. So what we want to do today is we really want to break down ⁓ in our culture. There's this kind of vernacular that's used quite a bit when it comes to consequences. You know, it became really popular with the Love and Logic, you know, book and that kind of parenting stream.

Kyle Wester (2:8.010)
and they would use the terms natural and logical consequences. So we're gonna talk about those, but we actually wanna talk about ⁓ what actually helps teach kids responsibility, right? Because what happens lots of times in the subject of consequence, it actually starts to backfire in helping our kids become responsible, ⁓ but we're also gonna talk about how to use consequences in a way that will protect the connection and build real skills that will help them for the rest of their lives.
Right. So it's not gonna be pretty good. Yeah. think this is a really important topic because I think it comes up for every single parent ⁓ is ⁓ in the mom groups. You everyone's talking about this. My kid did this. What should I do? You know, it's something that we I think there's a lot of tension around how do I get this right? ⁓ And, ⁓ and sometimes it can feel like a hole and I don't know what to do in the dark. Yeah. And so every speaking event it comes up ⁓ lots of times when I'm coaching parents, that's what they think. I've had a lot of
people on coaching, ⁓ they'll say they're get parent coaching and as soon as they hear that, those parents will say, what are the consequences? ⁓ There's almost like this ⁓ implied ⁓ question or implied that somehow we have this magical set of consequences that we do that will then motivate kids, ⁓ teach them to take responsibility, all these kind of outcomes that are really positive. And to be fair, there are books out there that sell that. Yes, that's true. Right? Yeah. ⁓
To be fair, that ⁓ message is sent out there all the time to say, yeah, there are, there are magical consequences that's gonna raise a perfect human. Yeah, but what we have found is missing in that conversation is really having a deeper dive into what consequences really teach our kids. ⁓ and that's really important. ⁓ and which ones, ⁓ lots of times, most of the time are just gonna create more power struggles and gonna damage your connection with your kid, right? Yeah, that's what we've seen time and again.
Yeah, is that damage and then you You're trying to get help because you thought you were you were doing the best you could you know figure out to do or what you were told to do and and and things are not your relationship isn't the way you want your all these concerns about your child their behavior the consequences didn't seem to Do the thing they were supposed to do Yeah, and I think what it ends up doing is parents end up feeling stuck in this impossible tension not wanting to be too harsh, right? They're not

Kyle Wester (4:29.026)
So lots of times they're using it because they don't want to blow up and they think screaming and yelling at their kid is not the way they go. But they're also not wanting to swing so far towards like permissive or got brought up at the thing, you know, the gentle parenting idea. And they think then nothing's going to really change at all because the kids just going to see you as a pushover. I think parents often find themselves, they feel like they're kind of swinging between those poles of, ⁓ I'm really trying to get away from this other model and then, now I've swung too gentle. Now I swing back over here trying to
bring in the right consequences in it and it's hard to feel secure, some certainty in the path that you're taking in this area. Yeah, and what we have found is what it really does often consequences just turns into more yelling. You know, I definitely hear this from the kids. It definitely brings more frustration, ⁓ more like random, crazy. I mean, I've heard things like kid said a cuss word. So now the kid is cleaning windows. You know,
to because their mouth is dirty or those kind of consequences pop up and I've heard all types of things you know that that come up and the kids kind of confuse as to what's the point of this you know and and then kids just aren't actually learning the skills which is the big part that that we're really excited about yeah yeah I mean for us you guys have probably heard us say if you've been listening for a while we're very skills based it's all about looking at child child development and as kids are growing up and we're raising them it's about giving them the skills they need throughout life
So what we want to unpack today, Sarah, is how, if you've been using consequences, you know the ⁓ results you're wanting, you know ⁓ there's this mixed bag that comes with it, right? Sometimes you get the result you wanted, the kid goes and does that thing. ⁓ Sometimes the kid just is more resistant to it and it doesn't seem to work at all. Sometimes you just throw up your hands and forget about it. It's all kind of over the place when parents are using.
consequences as a way to motivate the kid to do whatever or to somehow teach them a lesson, right? So we really want to unpack why that is because there are different ways to approach this topic. And so let's dive into the first one, right? So in an idea like love and logic, but also in other kind of parenting models, most of them will say the most effective consequences are natural consequences. Okay. But we want to take a moment and really define what natural consequences are. So the way we defined it,

Kyle Wester (6:47.242)
is there consequences that do not involve any parenting interference? Yeah, to me that's a real great early screener. Does this have anything to do with me? No? Okay, that's natural because if my kid goes outside and they're cold, it is the winter air that's making them cold has nothing to do with me. Yeah, I think a real common one that we ran into a lot was ⁓ kids packing up stuff to go somewhere, right? So they might forget their water bottle. They might forget their coats, right? And even though maybe we reminded them,
then they forgot it and then they show up and this happens to us as adults all the time, right? Like, ⁓ I forgot to bring my wallet or I forgot to bring my whatever. Just the other day I forgot my phone and we went to soccer games and so I had three hours of soccer games with no phone and you had to deal with the natural. I did. ⁓ I did. I remembered all the other things but I left my phone charging even though I was charging it so I would have a charged phone. But anyway, but you know what I love about that example though, Sarah's you did have to deal with that.
I could have as a spouse been like, that's what I was going to say. I was going to say, right. So in that you weren't like, well, I mean, that'll teach you to leave your phone. Yeah. How could you forget your phone? Yeah. There was no like shaming or there was no, yeah. I mean, there was no, careless can you be or anything like that? was like, Oh, forgot your phone. Yeah. It's going to be inconvenient. But I also didn't try to rescue you and go, okay, I know we drove 25 minutes of this game. Let me run all the way back to go get it. It was like, no, I just have to deal with it. It's three hours of not having my phone.
That kind of stinks, but I can deal with it. And it's going to help you remember next time to bring your phone. Right. I mean, that's, I don't know if that's where you're on, but, but natural consequences are amazing for that. I didn't need anyone. I didn't need all my friends on the sidelines going, Oh, you forgot your phone. Wow. What kind of mom are you? None of that was.
the best teacher was just the fact of me not having my phone at the inconvenience, not, you know what it's like guys. And when we live with our phones, we need them. And so having to just live with that was a great lesson for my brain to remember it. Well, and I even remember being a boy scout as a kid and there's lots of campouts I went on and I thought, I forgot that thing. I wish I would remember that. Right. And every campout, I started to make a list like

Kyle Wester (9:0.034)
Don't forget this. And even today we do that with a packing list, right? How many times did we have to deal with the natural consequences of like, do we forget to bring diapers? ⁓ Did we forget to bring them? I did not forget that. Hey, there was that one time we went on that vacation. I had to make that run. ⁓ we out. Yes, we ran out. We'd have enough. those were natural consequences that we had to deal We currently have a little ice freezer pack in our friends.
freezer because we left it. ⁓ that's right. Yes. Yes. ⁓ So, so kids, might be they forget their coat on a cold day. They forget their water bottle. There's all these kinds of moments. They do their homework. Yes. Right. Yeah. They show up, they don't have it. And then they get a lower grade because of that. All those things are natural consequences that are great to learn from. Even
Maybe they weren't very kind to a friend and now playing with somebody else, you know, they didn't share they didn't you know, there are some consequences in relationship I love that you bring because I would see that all the time as a school counselor that a kid was mean to another kid and then the natural Consequences of that of the next several days that kid was less apt to play with them ⁓ that kid maybe couldn't come like like from then on we'll go play with other kids during recess and you had to work through that that conflict that happened
and resolve it, but in the meantime, there were these consequences that kids didn't feel safe around that kid. Right? Right. So natural consequences. You're not involved as the parent. It's just what happens because of a decision you made. And I always love to say to parents, if you think about it, I don't think we often think this way. There's always a consequence. If I am kind to my friend, I have a consequence. That's a natural consequence. am hurtful to my friend, I have a consequence. So it's really about bringing your child's awareness to, there's always a consequence.
Which one do you want? Even me bringing, making the list before camp out, there's a consequence, which is I remember more things. Right. So either way, if I remember my phone, right, my brain wires for, Ooh, that's nice. have my phone. If I forget my phone, my brain wires, Ooh, this is uncomfortable. I want to make sure I bring my phone. basically, Sarah, what I want, what you're saying, that's so good that I want every parent, when we think of consequences, we just, it's just cause and effect. That's all it is, right? It's just, doesn't, ⁓ we'll get to this later, but lots of the conversation is about bad

Kyle Wester (11:8.224)
is about things that we do that are negative. But ⁓ everything has consequences. From the time of day that we're recording this episode, from whether or not I ate before we recorded, whatever, right? ⁓ What I did eat before we recorded. So everything has consequences. And we're wanting to help our kids be able to, without shame, without fear, be aware of the cause and effect that's happening ⁓ with every choice they're making. Yeah. And we don't want that judgment in there. We want to hold it back. It's so easy to of slip it in there to be like, told you. ⁓
you know, but we really want to hold that back because we want our kids to kind of be these curious investigators in life. I did this, ooh, but I don't like that. I did this and I like that, right? And if we can hold it without judgment, we can help them walk through that and we can hold that this is going to be years, decades of their brain trying to figure out what action leads to what result. So we want to be on that ride with them with curiosity and support.
not, I better hide this because now I'm ashamed of myself. know we're going to get there. And this kind of learning when you're learning through these natural consequences, it becomes more experiential. You're not lecture based, right? Like you're really just learning. You're learning, oh, how to get the best outcome I want. Right. It often builds independence, helps them with problem solving skills and the prefrontal cortex engages because they can reflect. Right. So like if we want our kids reflecting, oh, I didn't like how that happened.
next time I want to do a difference, ⁓ then we got to be free of the fear and shame to be able to allow them to do it. And that's really where the learning and changes happens, right? I once, ⁓ I, once saw this, were at soccer, right? And so we're driving, there's a big car line of people and this kid was kicking their ball and they weren't carrying it ⁓ through the parking lot. So you can imagine what happened. Ball rolled out, got smashed. And the parent in that case was like, ⁓ your ball got smashed and did a really great, I could, the windows were down, the weather was nice. And he talked to this kid about,
You didn't have control of your ball and the ball got smashed and kind of where and, ⁓ it was a really beautiful kind of natural consequence. You know, I have no idea what happened before. don't know if the parents watch the the little brief snippet I saw was that was a consequence. This child's brain, I'm sure he's going to remember. ⁓ didn't take care of my ball. No, that's totally that happened to me with my soccer boy in the neighborhood. You let it go out and car almost hits it or does hit it. And then you learn from that. Right. So the brain,

Kyle Wester (13:30.010)
just so you, it learns, ⁓ all our brains learn through lived experience, ⁓ not repeated warnings. ⁓ Okay, so the best way to learn is through actually lived experience. Which is why, even though I've told you a hundred times. I know. ⁓ That's why, because it's not through the warnings, it's through the experience. And so natural consequences work best when the child's brain can actually connect the dots. That's what you're wanting to do. You don't need to connect the dots for them necessarily.
You can do it with them, but you'll need to do it for them. You want them to start creating the habit of learning, this added to that and added to that. And when the outcome isn't overwhelming to the nervous system, then they're able to really think about it, reflect on it and learn from it, which is what we want them to do. So regulation makes that learning possible. And too often, I know Sarah, the mistake I have made is at moments when like our daughter has forgotten her water bottle for the 10th time.
⁓ I get dysregulated, I get upset, and actually me being upset and causing this anxiety within her, because she knows I'm going to get upset about it, ⁓ it makes it actually almost impossible for her to learn from it. Yeah, because it distracts from it, right? Because now she's dealing with you and you're upset. ⁓ And instead being able to live with the moment of, ⁓ you know, if she's in this calm place of, this is what I did, this is what happened, do I like that or not? You want to keep your child in that learning, growing space. Well, and so some, just some...
This is a of a reminder that natural consequences are not appropriate when safety is at risk. This is really important. I'm not letting my two year old go to the park without their jacket. ⁓ I told you to grab your jacket. You did it. It's winter. Yeah. That's not ⁓ that. And that's also unrealistic. Yeah. My two year old's not now my 10 year old, they might be okay. That, you know, depending on the weather. So I love this point. We have to make sure
it's age appropriate and it's going to be safe. Yeah. So safety's at risk. Number two, the consequences too delayed. What do mean by that? It happens way after the fact. The does need to be able to connect the dots. It's too hard to see that because it's like days later and then the outcome is like, doesn't seem connected. And then the last one is someone else pays the price. ⁓ Right. Right. So the natural consequence of me throwing blocks

Kyle Wester (15:46.070)
you get hit in the head and you get hurt ⁓ and there's there, you know, that's like, ⁓ I probably should have stepped in and stopped the block throwing, you know, because the kid learned it hurts to get hit. That's that's different. That's not as connected. That's not though. Yeah, that's great. So we want to make sure we keep in those three things in mind when we're just letting these natural consequences play out. You know, I want to give an example of a teen. If a teen is driving unsafe. ⁓
It's not just them that they maybe they'll get a ticket. Maybe they'd be in that maybe you could say that's that's on you But they could hurt someone else exactly. So I I can't let that happen Yeah, right. I need to stop and keep the world safe and the other people say that's great Okay, so that's natural consequences and those are the best ways to learn Okay so the second type that is talked about a lot ⁓ is What what what the book love and logic call was logical? Yeah, and I think that's the term
a lot of people use. What I like that Dr. Becky Bailey of Conscious Discipline, she calls it imposed consequences. that, so we're gonna use that. Yeah, the reason why we use that is because I just think it's ⁓ easier to understand. Because lots of times what we have heard in coaching parents, what they think are logical consequences doesn't make any logical sense to me or to the kid. ⁓ And so I think imposed consequences ⁓ more ⁓ describes what's actually happening. I was gonna say, can I use the word
⁓ Yeah, exactly ⁓ Because like a logical consequence seems like you don't bring your coat and it's cold, right? Yeah, but it imposed consequence is something that I'm doing to the kid, you know because of this moment ⁓ The court system the school whoever is imposing a constant Yeah, so imposed consequences are parent created comp outcomes that are directly related to the behavior Okay, so I'll say that again
parent created outcomes that are directly related to the behavior. And this is important because many things that are called imposed consequences or logical consequences ⁓ are just actually punishment in disguise. Right. You know, and if it's driven by frustration, which a lot of times it is, I know it was for us, you know, for me, when the kids were little, if it's not clearly related or if it's meant to make the child suffer or like embarrass the kid, all those kinds of things, right? ⁓ It's probably not teaching.

Kyle Wester (18:3.469)
⁓ It's just punished. Right? ⁓ Yeah, it is very sure, you know, we slip into this we think you you didn't do you know, you hit your sister Okay, now you need to go vacuum the floor. Yeah, you know, well, no you yeah, I even remember I mean this is how it was when I was a kid Sarah if you bit a kid your parent might bite
Like that's how some parents would do that you want to you want to know what that felt like and they would think I feel that like that is I Know that's what I'm I but you bit me like but I would hear parents do that, right? So it'd be like that doesn't seem to be oh, that's interesting that so that seems more like a punishment like you bit me You know you you hurt me back because how's that? Did you hit the kid? I'm gonna hit you, you know, it's a really really great way, you know to kind of check it. Yes And it's important to and think about that, right? So
A key distinction is natural consequences. Life does it like it just happens, you know, ⁓ imposed ones are the parent structuring the consequence. Okay. So an example, for instance, would be like, toys are thrown. So the toys get put away, right? the block throwing. Yes. Right. That's a real common one. Kids will throw things or knock things down or do something. And so you might go, okay, we need to remove these. Right. That's that I'm imposing this upon you. I am taking away your toy.
And but it is connected to this isn't safe. Well, and you gave the example of the kid not driving safely. So now maybe we just need to not drive for a while. Right. Until we can make sure we're driving. gonna send you to a defensive driving class. I'm going to do something like that. We're gonna for a while you need to drive with me in the car. Yes. There would be all kinds of different ways to connect this of
building a skill and I need to make sure. I've even had kids who are doing, you know, smoking pots or doing other, and the parents say, Hey, I want to, we want to drug test weekly. Right. And so that's kind of an imposed consequence of saying we want to make sure. Yes. Yeah. And to make sure you're staying off of it. And yeah. And a larger thing of building a skill and building safety and all those things. Yeah. So, so imposed consequences, the consequences are helpful only when, and this is important, so keep this in mind. They're only helpful when they are calm.

Kyle Wester (20:11.254)
predictable and directly related to the skill you're building. Yeah. So once again, if I'm super dysregulated and I'm imposing a conflict while I'm screaming and yelling, or I'm shaming them, maybe I'm not yelling, I'm just shaming them. That distracts the brain from learning the lesson. We need them to learn. So if I'm in that place, I'm bringing them to their limbic system or their brainstem. And that's not the place that learning happens. So I want to stay nice and calm. want to connect it to this. want to them.
to be in their brain learning whatever it is they're needing to learn. What I think in you saying that Sarah, the point of all of this is we eventually want to raise kids who take responsibility, right? And in that moment, when I'm losing it, when I'm yelling, when I'm shaming, when I'm not giving the kid a chance to take responsibility, I'm just taking it for them and I'm missing an opportunity. Like the kid is just thinking, what do I need to do to get out of this moment? You know, they're not thinking, what did I do? And how could I do it better? There's no reflection happening.
they're just gonna get angry at you or angry at themselves. And that's pretty much ⁓ it. So many times, ⁓ things that parents call logical consequences or are imposed are just actually punishments ⁓ wearing nicer clothes. ⁓ And it kind of makes us feel better. It wasn't as bad as doing this other thing, but it really is just a punishment. And so imposed consequences fit ⁓ only when they preserve the dignity of your kid. ⁓ When the kid feels like,
It's undignified, it's disrespectful to them. ⁓ They just get focused on that. They don't get focused on learning. ⁓ Yeah, mean, the blocks, ⁓ all of those things can be done with dignity. Like, hey, we want to be safe playing. We don't want to hurt other people. Let's put the blocks over here. Let's play with something else. We can try that again later. I remember even saving their... I remember when the kids were young and sometimes going to bed was hard, ⁓ or older too when they were little. That transition from like...
having fun to then go into sleep was difficult. Yeah, who wants to leave and to we noticed, I remember we had long talks about this, we noticed maybe watching that cartoon before bedtime isn't helpful, right? So I remember, I remember sitting down, we sat down with the kids and just said, hey, I don't think watching the show before bedtime is helping us be able to regulate our bodies and get into a calm place to go to sleep. So what we're going to do is we're going to stop watching shows before we go to bed.

Kyle Wester (22:29.102)
If we do watch a show, it's gonna be like way before that. And then we're gonna spend a few hour, like an hour just playing with toys or whatever. And we're gonna see if that helps. ⁓ And the kids at first were like, what? okay. But then they're like, okay, I guess I can see that. And so I said, maybe we can try the show at a different time, but right now I don't think it's working. And the kids, we purposely made sure we were in a good space. Instead of, mean, initially we're frustrated.
Why won't they just go to sleep? know? ⁓ But then it's like, yeah, we're showing them screens. Yeah. But we could have been like, you know what? You guys are no more screens. Yeah. And there now we've slipped into punishment as opposed to the other way. were technically imposing a consequence saying like, isn't working. Let's remove that to help you be able to do this. Right. But we wanted to get that skill of transitioning to bedtime. And after we did that for probably like three, four or five months, then we tried to throw in a show at that time. And then there was no issue. There was no battle. You know? Yeah.
Okay, so imposed consequences can work. I mean, it's not that they don't have any value, they can work, but if they work, because predictability lowers the threat response, you so the kid kind of knows, okay, this is happening, okay. ⁓ There's a clear cause and effect, which is going to support the kids executive functioning, and their ability to kind of like think long term and see the pattern that's coming ⁓ in less emotional flooding than just random punishment.
Yeah, so it's not it's not us getting caught up in the moment reacting to things. Yeah Well, and I'm thinking of an example of that try maybe ⁓ Maybe schoolwork, you know, like hey, here's the window for you to do your school you played around and you didn't get it done. So now ⁓ Instead of we were gonna go do this now you need to do your school, right? So that would be where I'm kind of imposing that right but it is connected and it's without shaming and yeah ⁓
Well, and I love self-determination theory is a very fun theory. If you ever want to research it, it's really cool, but it's just basically the understanding of motivation and how we feel like we can create our own lives and all that kind of stuff, right? We want our kids to feel self-determined. So imposed consequences tend to create fewer negative emotional reactions.

Kyle Wester (24:41.262)
when delivered with sensitivity, with dignity, okay? So then the kid is able then to see that and go, okay, I wanna create a different ending to that story and then they can do something different, which is what you want, okay? So when consequences do feel random, which I think a lot of times happens, kids will resist it and that's where the power struggles will start to happen, is because they feel like they're random. feel like you're just making them up in the moment out of anger. But when they feel they are respectful, you know, to use a lack of a better word, logical, kids can learn from
and they're able to understand, they're able to see the dots you're connecting and then they can start connecting their own. Kind of on the homework one, they might go, you know what? Now I kind of wish I had done it earlier. And so the next time they might do it earlier. So then they have that free time later when whatever's going on. Yeah. And so ⁓ with that in mind, I want to take a moment here. ⁓ So now Sarah and I have have identified what the natural consequences are. We've also looked at the logical or imposed consequences.
And in general, Sarah and I don't use that language a lot. ⁓ In general, ⁓ if we're ever coaching parents, we don't use the word consequences because we firmly believe if we are connected with our kids, if we are using empathy, if we are being assertive, if we are ⁓ constantly ⁓ help setting boundaries with them, right? Doing all these other healthy things. Typically this conversation just doesn't happen all that often. Yeah, that's the crazy part. I mean, we've been doing this a while now and time and time again.
We just don't ever need to get there. We just don't because we've had the conversation, we've created a plan together. We've trained the kids to see the dots. They are connecting themselves. So then we wind up just not even needing it. Yeah. so therefore it doesn't come up. don't ever really use the word, not because the consequences word is a bad word. It's just in our culture, you know, if you're listening to this, if consequences are brought up, it's always going to infer typically some kind of punishment. Right? I don't ever really hear it.
all day often referring to anything positive, right? Like I don't ever hear parents say, hey, you got a great night's sleep last night. The consequence of that is you're gonna feel rested, right? So there isn't this nuance, there isn't a nuanced understanding of it. It's always pretty much like a one track understanding. Like, because- Yeah, it's even negative. Yeah, when parents say what are the consequences, they're not like, what are the positive consequences? So lots of times we like to talk about just even raising our own awareness as parents and interacting with our kids.

Kyle Wester (27:8.226)
What are the consequences of our actions? Right? Like I think it really helped me, Sarah, to think when I yell at my kid or when I shame my kid, I want to be very aware of what those consequences are. And many times it was a distance in our relationship, right? ⁓ There was like, it was harder now for me to connect with them. It was, they were less open and receptive to me. And I want to emphasize that because this, ⁓ that's what a lot of parents end up falling into is when they're young, because they have lack of tools, they're just using consequences, right?
and they think, that's better than maybe I'm not spanking. Maybe I'm not, all that. Yeah, it's a step, right? And it's so much out there. just, yeah, I think that's what you learn about what you're told to do. Yeah. And so I want to, ⁓ I'm trying to give, in wrapping up this conversation about consequences, I'm trying to give a lead in to our next podcast that we're going to do, where we're going to specifically talk about the mistakes parents tend to make.
when it comes to implementing consequences, okay? So it's really important to see that because there's a lot of outcomes that end up happening that we end up dealing with when we're talking to teenagers and helping teenagers that parents never predicted would happen, you know? But these mistakes are so crucial to understand because it then will help you better ⁓ implement this tool ⁓ in a way that's healthy in your family, you know? And so that's why even we kind of stay away from using the wording.
because it does imply so much negativity, right? But once again, I don't think it's bad to use to have natural consequences. We just want to increase your imagination that that doesn't need to be the go-to, right? ⁓ So I hope this conversation today was really, really helpful to you in understanding the difference between natural consequences and imposed consequences. And definitely join us for part two of this conversation where we're gonna dive into the common mistakes parents make when using consequences.
And definitely share this podcast, share this episode with any of your friends who are asking you, well, what are the consequences, right? ⁓ Let's inform them, let's expand that conversation. It is a nuanced topic and let's make it that way because we wanna raise kids who are aware of the consequences, but not just in a negative way. So thank you so much for joining us today and we look forward to you being part of part two next week.