Episode 163

Kyle Wester (0:17.166)
Wouldn't you love to have a house full of peace? I know as parents, we're always striving to like get rid of the chaos and bring more peace into the home. But having kids is naturally chaotic and there's so much beauty about that. But a big part of having peace in our home is creating healthy habits. And I think that a of times that's one of the biggest difficulties as parents is to consistently have habits to help our home and our lives to be more organized and therefore,
more peaceful and especially difficult when you're inviting kids into that. But today we want to introduce you to somebody who does that on a daily basis. So today we're going to bring on Tara Bremer. She's the CEO of House Peace and she's going to talk to us about how to help our kids and ourselves as parents to create these healthy habits that will help us have homes full of peace. And she's going to talk specifically about the three legged stool that we can all use.
to help our kids today start getting these healthy habits to help do things like clean their room, put up their backpacks and shoes after school, to have a cleaner, more organized kitchen space, and really just start bringing in more of this piece that we all desire in our homes. So if you could take a moment to pause and to rate and review the podcast, we'd love it when you put the five stars on there and the comments, that's always so helpful to us and encouraging to us.
And when you share it with other people, because that just helps more and more people know about the work we're doing here. And we greatly appreciate you helping us out with that. So if you have a pen and paper and want to take some notes, this is a great opportunity to do that. Or if you're just driving, get ready to learn about how to create a house filled with peace.

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there. I'm Sarah. you know, Sarah, a big thing we hear from a lot of parents is a desire to have peace in their home. Yeah. You know, like they're tired of the chaos. They're tired of just everything being disorganized. Right. And a lot of that comes down to building habits, know, healthy habits in our home. And so
We're really excited to have a guest on today to talk about a subject we've never discussed before on the podcast, but is very dear to our hearts, because we think habits are really important, because habits- Yeah, it's something we're very intentional about, we've never talked about. Well, habits form- I'm excited. Yeah, they form character, they form all that kind of stuff. So without further ado, we want to say welcome, Tara.

Tara Bremer (0:41.714)
Hi.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:43.478)
And so Tara Bremer is the CEO and founder of the House of Peace. And you love to talk about bringing peace into homes, right? And this is what you do for a living.

Tara Bremer (0:54.310)
Let me give a little correction. It's house piece. There's no of in there. Well, house of peace is usually like a Buddhist meditation center or something. I'm not kidding. This is a common mistake. People will write checks to house of peace. Thankfully they still go through. But the reason I named my business house piece is because I want to signify like I can't make your home like the heart of the home.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:57.896)
Oh, oh, oh, okay, that's good, okay. What's the difference?

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:12.141)
Yes.

Tara Bremer (1:23.750)
but I can make your house better, which will then impact the home. So we can move towards peace that will impact hearts and the home later. I do the house.

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:27.233)
Yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:34.862)
Yeah, no, that's great. How did you get into this? How did you get passionate about it? Why did you start going down this journey? I know you started in 2013. What prompted all that?

Tara Bremer (1:44.040)
Well, my background's in counseling and psychology and I was kind of pursuing a lifetime career in that. I wanted to be a professor. I wanted to have a client caseload. But then I unexpectedly got pregnant after eight years of marriage. And so I was over the moon to be a mom. I decided to be a stay at home mom. And once I left therapy, I didn't go back. I mean, I go back for myself. Yeah, I just...

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:58.183)
Mmm... Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:10.048)
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tara Bremer (2:13.352)
I raised kids 100 % of the time until my third child came home. So my boys are my biological sons and I had them first. And then my daughter, we adopted her at 19 months. And that was in 2013. And I had been blogging about home organization. was kind of a creative outlet for me because I, mothering in those early, early years was so hard for me.

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:28.268)
Oh wow. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (2:42.906)
I just found it to be stressful to not know what was coming next. What temper tantrum is coming, what flow out is coming. And I, I, I needed to have what I call a sense of healthy control. And so I was like, just organizing my house on my own blogging about it, taking pictures. And then my daughter came home and uh turns out becoming a mom of three with an instant toddler is hard. And, and we have all the adoption

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:49.996)
Yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:8.236)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Bremer (3:12.836)
you know, considerations in there as well. So uh someone said to me from my Bible study, they're like, Hey, you should start a business. bet people would pay you to do what you do. And I'm like, you know what, they probably would. So that about six months after she came home, I named the business, got a Facebook page up. And uh I started marketing specifically to moms Birmingham, which is where I live Birmingham moms who have adopted from China. Because I was

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:41.390)
Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes.

Tara Bremer (3:42.502)
I was in that group. so what's funny is they hired me and so many of them are still my clients, still my friends. So yeah, I wanted a job to help me feel again, that kind of healthy sense of control and to have a payoff. Like mothering is thankless. No toddler is like, thank you mommy for all the hard work you do. They're just not. And I think,

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:6.027)
Yeah.
Yes.

Tara Bremer (4:12.220)
the intrinsic rewards of being a mom are there. You get the snuggles, get the, you know, the baby smell, you get all that. em But I needed a little more. So turns out someone paying me is a nice reward for saying thank you for what you've done. And honestly, I love it. I love it. I love making a difference. It's no exaggeration to say that people say, wow, when house pieces come, my life has changed. And I'm like,

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:17.228)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:27.379)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Tara Bremer (4:41.754)
All I want is for you to have a better situation in your house.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:46.710)
Yeah. Yeah. I so remember those days. I sometimes I'm still in them a little bit, but especially when they're when they're young. It's constant chaos in some way, even if it's just emotional, even if it's someone's having a tantrum or and you are looking for that I can. I remember just feeling like I'd walk through the house and my brain would take mental note of
You know, Oh, you, you left your subi cup there. Oh, so-and-so's favorite toy is laying on the floor there. They're going to not know where that is later. And you know, just everything in the piles of the food and the, all the stuff. And, and I love how you said that kind of sense of control. It's like, there's so much that you, you are just there. You're responding to the next need and all the time and you don't know what's going to hit you. So it gives you a little space of organization, a little space of.
So I would like, can you tell more about um that? To me, there's a big relationship between all that chaos and the level of stress we're feeling, the level of anxiety. We're already in a really hard place in life. You know, having kids and doing all the things and running around, I'm running around now to different things and organizing all of that. So what does it mean to say, okay, I'm gonna prioritize this organization. How does that bring peace or what's the relationship?
there to our minds.

Tara Bremer (6:13.832)
I'm sure you probably have heard this stat that as clutter rises, women's cortisol level rises and it's not the same for men. And it's unclear in the study that found this if that's because just we have still have a lot of traditional gender roles and women typically are the ones in charge of the house. like you were saying, I related to that so much about like the sippy cup and the this and that it's like, I still do it. And my kids are teenagers.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:22.892)
Yeah,

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:32.279)
Mm-hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:39.191)
Yeah, yeah.

Tara Bremer (6:42.344)
13, 15, 19. I still see stuff and I'm like, that's something I have to do. That's a chore I have to do. That's something I got to take care of. Oh, I got to get to this. I had undiagnosed anxiety as a young mother and I didn't know how to have like better self-talk and even still at the battle. Like I have this concept that I use a lot with my clients and on social media and stuff called chaos resilience because

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:42.540)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:54.872)
Mm... yeah, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:11.117)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Bremer (7:12.378)
Instead of us as mothers and fathers looking at, I'm gonna be honest. I don't know if dad's looking at the same. I just don't. But like, instead of us saying, there's something I gotta do. Oh my gosh, when am gonna do this? Instead it's, oh yeah, that needs to return to the system. And I will have time when I have the day off on Saturday or I will, you know what I mean? Like chaos will happen. It just will, especially with children, especially in this fast paced.

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:19.839)
Hahaha!

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:25.238)
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (7:41.608)
life that we live, messes are going to happen. For example, my son moved back from college this weekend and this is my office that he shares with me. He's got a desk and everything. And this is like his space. all the entire contents of his dorm room was all over the office. And I could be stressed about that, but I just left it. I had my house cleaned yesterday and I just said to the lady who cleans our house, said, just don't even go in there.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:6.136)
Mm-hmm.

Tara Bremer (8:11.100)
Like I wasn't gonna just stress and be like, oh my gosh, like I gotta get this. Yeah, I knew that it would, the resilience would happen and it happened today because my son has been working for two days to unload all of his things. And then I helped him with the last little bit, knowing that I was gonna have this podcast interview, knowing that I wanted the background to be tidy. And so I didn't have to be like, oh, that's something I have to do. It's more like, I will get to this when the time is right.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:12.307)
Yes, yes, yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:28.770)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:36.140)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I love that term chaos resilience, right? Yeah. And I remember that Tara early on, was telling Sarah before we got on this interview, I remember how her and I, were both a really good fit when it came to being organized, clean. had good habits. both, we had years before we even had kids where just that had been real streamlined. He went to work. went to work. We had to get, know, like everything was tidy. then it did seem like when the kids came along,

Tara Bremer (8:41.244)
Yes. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:4.160)
I maybe I wasn't as resilient as I thought. It just seemed like things were not where I expected them to be or it was just I know. I'm just here. There's been so many like it was especially even as I've gotten older and now they can sometimes use the tools I have and the girl like where is my screwdriver? Like what is happening? Where's this thing gone? I'm like.

Tara Bremer (9:10.235)
The kids are just the biggest monkey wrenches ever. They're walking off

Tara Bremer (9:22.418)
Please do not get me started, because the kits will take stuff from my organizing kit. And I'm like, on the job, like, where's my scissors that are specifically for my job?

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:29.281)
No.
Well, and even I loved in just our initial conversation before we got on here is just talking about habits. Cause I told the kids like a habit I have to make sure I know where everything is, especially the tools is if I get something out of the toolbox, I always leave the lid to the toolbox open. So that reminds me that I need to bring it back and put it back. So I tell the kids, yeah, yeah.

Tara Bremer (9:47.932)
Yes.

Tara Bremer (9:51.356)
There's your cue. The cue is.

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:54.094)
Yeah, yeah. If you get the hammer out or you get the screwdriver, I don't mind you using them, but leave the lid open so you remember to put it back, you know? And I just tell them that's just a habit I had to form, not because I'm just super smart, but because I kept forgetting to put things back, right? And then I would feel more stressed and I would have less peace because I'm trying to do a simple home improvement project and I can't find this dumb tool, you know? So if you could talk about the importance of that, because I think too often,

Tara Bremer (10:9.149)
That's right.

Tara Bremer (10:17.842)
That's right.

Kyle And Sara Wester (10:23.426)
We just don't think about how we're forming these habits in ourselves and in our kids to bring about the peace we want in our homes.

Tara Bremer (10:32.336)
Absolutely. I love that you said that about the tools. That's a perfect example of the habit like formation, the three legs of the stool, I guess. We need the cue that leads to the behavior that leads to the reward. So in this case, your cue is the lid stays up. That reminds you the behavior is I go put this screwdriver back. The reward is your stuff is where you expect it to be next time.

Kyle And Sara Wester (10:51.608)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (10:56.096)
Yep.

Kyle And Sara Wester (10:59.586)
Yes, yes. Well, I would say the reward is there is like peace of mind that next time I need that thing, it's there and I love that you pointed. So just that you said the queue, right? You said then what's the next one behavior and then the reward. So the queue to behavior, the reward. those thinking of those three things, man, that's awesome that I did that without even knowing it. uh

Tara Bremer (11:6.184)
That's right.

Tara Bremer (11:10.822)
Yes. Behavior.

Tara Bremer (11:20.666)
Yeah, yeah, no, I know. It's great total softball. Thank you Because I mean this has been on my mind, especially this week. I'm helping a mom in her home She's got two young kids five and six married She's a business owner uh Self described as ADHD and they said our houses also informed us because they use their front door to come into the house from the car they do have a garage but like it's

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:45.741)
Mmm.

Tara Bremer (11:49.408)
way tucked around and it's just super inconvenient. So they come in through the front door. They have a gorgeous, beautiful renovated historic home. There ain't no place to put the shoes in the backpacks when they come in the house. And so what ends up happening is the stuff just gets dumped in her office, which is right there by the front door. And so that's unmanageable because what I worked on her office on Monday and

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:51.137)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:2.360)
You

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:11.118)
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (12:18.458)
what would happen is clothes, skincare, uh workout, yoga blocks, whatever, would end up in her office. And then my guess is, I don't know for sure, because I haven't dug through the rest of her house, but my guess is she'll repeat buy things because she's not expecting these things to be in the office. So she forgets that they're, you know, they're in there because you've got piles. We don't know what's in the piles. So we are trying to establish for her a new habit.

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:35.608)
Mmm. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (12:46.402)
What we're going to do is we're going to walk past the office, walk past the stairs to the, um, there's a doorway to the basement. Okay. And the basement is a gorgeous, fully, you know, like it's not the dungeon. It's beautiful. And even the stairway down to the basement is beautiful. So what we're going to do is we're going to install hooks. We're going to be able to throw hats, coats, backpacks, cause it's really tall. It's probably like 10 foot tall. Um, and then at the bottom of the stairs, we're going to install shelves.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:8.238)
um Yeah. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (13:15.362)
It's not even the bottom. It's a landing. It's a very wide landing. Okay, so you see how we're having to put these puzzle pieces together. Ages of the kids, the design of the home, where the driveway is, the ADHD that's going on. So we're going to install shelves on that landing and that's where the shoes are going to go. Now, I know what people are going to say like, the kids they just, I'm like, the kids can walk 10 steps. They can and walk past that office.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:17.324)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:40.684)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's true.

Tara Bremer (13:42.672)
and go down here. I have so many people who are like, but I use this all the time. I need it with an arms reach. I'm like, you don't. You can bend over and like, you know, get your lotion out of the drawer instead of having it on the counter with 50 other things. Like, so I wanna, I wanna encourage people that like, if this thing makes sense, don't let, don't let these silly obstacles like, well, it's too far. It's not too far. uh So with her, what I wanna do is create a queue. uh And literally all I mean is,

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:49.080)
Yeah. Yep.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:54.668)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:4.066)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (14:12.016)
right on a piece of paper, shoes go here. And you know, like tape it on the door to the basement. I said it doesn't have to be cute. It doesn't have to be laminated. All we need is for that to be there for a little while until the habit is established. So the cue is shoes go here, kids are gonna open the door, they're gonna put their things in there. And the reward is there's not a pile of shoes. uh We know where our shoes are. We know where the backpacks are. And we walk into the house with like,

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:16.482)
Yeah. Yep.

Tara Bremer (14:41.202)
this like clear chest, know, you just can breathe and move and, uh and once, once the habits established, then we throw the ugly sign away. We don't care. uh So I, I, I did that for a long time in my whole house because I felt like my house was being overrun by my own kids. I don't know that sounds familiar to anybody, but uh I felt like we were doing things in certain rooms that I didn't want to happen in there. I didn't want forts in my living room.

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:49.228)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:2.451)
I sure am.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:10.691)
Yeah, yeah.

Tara Bremer (15:10.970)
And I know what some of y'all's listeners are gonna say, like, she's so mean. No, I'm not. My house has an extra loft that like we can do all the, that's right. And it's upstairs. And I know developmentally, you know, children want to be in the same room as their parents until they're an age, but my kids weren't. So I put signs on the light switches in all rooms of my house. Here's what happens in the living room. Here's what, you know, happens in this room.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:16.353)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's great for that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:28.226)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:37.698)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I think is amazing, what you're pointing out and I think it's so true when I walk in, when I've done that work, feels like it's a lot at the time, but before you realize that you're down the road and you think, why did I ever do it the other way? It just becomes that you're not even thinking about it. You're just walking down the hall, putting your shoes on the little shelf and it just

Tara Bremer (15:40.464)
And once we establish that, done. We're done.

Tara Bremer (15:57.169)
Yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:4.610)
To make the transition from dropping them at the door to down the hall feels massive. And then when you've done it, you think that wasn't that. And it feels so great. The payoff is so amazing to walk in and the space is beautiful. And like you said, you just feel open and light when you've done that effort. sounds like you're, you're doing a lot of visual cues to be able to see the cue. I think would you also agree, Tara, another way to do that, especially with like teenagers, I'm thinking something we did with our oldest daughter.

Tara Bremer (16:11.912)
It wasn't a-

Tara Bremer (16:25.831)
visual cues.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:33.262)
Um, cleaning the room was a constant kind of, you know, it just kept building up. would overwhelm her then it wouldn't get done. And so it was like, I said to her, which I was saying, Hey, would it help if once a week I came in your room and we worked on this together? And she said something interesting. She said, no, I don't think once a week is enough. think by the end of the week, it's too overwhelming. Like there's too much stuff piled up. So I said, then what would you want to do? She said, I'd like to do it daily.

Tara Bremer (16:54.129)
Oh! uh

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:3.246)
Could we just set a reminder on the phone every evening for you to remind me to put the clothes away and then I will do it. And then we can come down and we'll watch a show or do something like that. Right. And so, yeah. So I thought that was interesting that she wanted to do it every day rather than once a week. Cause I assume she would think that's like too much, but instead she said it's too little. She wanted the bite size. Cause even by the end of the week, she

Tara Bremer (17:14.987)
I love that. Yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:30.648)
had this insight that even by then it was already too overwhelming. And the resistance would build up and then she'd feel like she didn't know where to start. Yeah, so it was almost like, yeah.

Tara Bremer (17:34.247)
That's right.

Tara Bremer (17:38.758)
I love that. That's some real wisdom from a kid. How old is she? That's amazing.

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:42.348)
Yeah. At that time she was like 14 and it was, it was neat. Tara was, it was at first the queue was me or Sarah physically coming up there and saying, Hey, how's the room? And then we, and that, that went on for a few weeks. Then the next one was like, Hey, is the room done? Hey, I'm working on it now. And then it was just like their minder. And then pretty soon it was like, I stopped asking. And I'd just be like, Sarah is the room gets you. Yeah. When I go up and
say goodnight to her. It seems like everything's put away. Yeah. And so it like, but we thought if we could just do this for a few months and just be intentional, let's put it on the calendar. And it's going to be a little work on our part, which at first, and it gets what a lot of parents are like, man, just more work. And it was, but the payoff is now she's got the habit.

Tara Bremer (18:8.872)
That's amazing.

Tara Bremer (18:21.714)
But the payoff, yes, absolutely. And I think, em like with my daughter, her room is a disaster currently. And she also feels like this is too much. So sometimes I'll do body doubling, which is what you were suggesting at first with your daughter and just sit in there and I might, you know, hang some clothes with her or something. But even just me being in there creates this like appointment, you know, this is what we're here doing.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:30.200)
Mm-hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:36.184)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:47.222)
Yes. Yep. Yep.

Tara Bremer (18:49.672)
And I do like that. kind of, I'm big on alarms and reminders. I think that I'm going to take a cue from you. And I think I'm going to ask my daughter, she's 13. Like what can, what can I do? How can we partner to keep this room going? Cause again, I had my house cleaned. They couldn't go in her room because there was no point. There was just stuff all over the floor.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:53.122)
Yeah. Yep.
Okay? oh

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:8.896)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and even in that, we even asked her, like, what does she want that cue to be? She picked the alarm on the phone. Who do you want to come up and check me or mom? Right. And so then she like, dad, I'd like you to go and check on it. So, you know, it was like, all these things were things that she was invited into creating the cue for herself. I'm using your words there to then inspire the behavior.

Tara Bremer (19:27.268)
Mm-hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:30.570)
And then it helped me because I think she chose me because a lot of the conflict had been with me coming up and come on, what's up with the room? Why are we not getting this done yet? You know? And so she wanted to shift that with me and then I could show her that I could do it. I could come up and just be like, Hey, how's it going? You need help with this? Yeah.

Tara Bremer (19:45.542)
Yeah, that's amazing. And I think too, like the alarms and the cues and the reminders of any kind, it's just helpful to know that like, we're all normal here. Like humans are forgetful. This is why if you're a person of faith, you go back to church every week because we've already forgotten. We've already forgotten what it is that we believe that, you know, and we got to keep being reminded. So, you know, uh

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:57.260)
Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:3.828)
Uh huh. Sure. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (20:14.970)
A lot of times cues aren't even for the kids. Sometimes they're just for us. Cause I have forgotten what I decided. I decided that this is where the shoes are going to go, but then we didn't do it and I forgot. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, why didn't I do that? And that's, I'm, I'm like, workshopping a concept right now about labels. Like when you organize, we label everything. And in a way a cue is, a visual label that, you know, or

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:18.050)
Hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:21.804)
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Yes.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:33.708)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:42.356)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, and I love what you're saying there is that we're all human and that I think so many times we think we're just so good, all our habits come easy and we're not that patient and understanding that in the piece we're wanting in our home, it's gonna have to take some intentional consistent work to join forces together with the kid.

Tara Bremer (20:44.014)
or an auditory or whatever. I've got to play with that, but we are forgetful.

Kyle And Sara Wester (21:9.484)
to say, let's form these habits together. Because I'm telling you, I remember Tara, I was not taught how to form these habits as a kid. I was typically threatened to like, if you don't get your room done, you're gonna get spanked or you're gonna get grounded or something like that, right? So you know what I did? Like seriously, as a kid, I never slept underneath my covers. I always slept on top of my covers with a blanket because I never wanted to have to make my bed. And so just silly that, yeah.

Tara Bremer (21:29.416)
Thank

Tara Bremer (21:33.350)
Bless that baby heart.

Kyle And Sara Wester (21:36.134)
So that's the kind of stuff I would do because I didn't want to mess up my bed and then get yelled at. And so it's so, the differences and what we're trying to do is instead of the threatening to just get it done to make me happy or somehow feel the peace that your room is done. Instead, I can own the fact that we're always trying to get healthier habits. We're always trying to eat healthier, exercise better, know, talk better, manage our feelings better, whatever it is.

Tara Bremer (21:40.048)
Dear parents, I think you need to tell them.

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:5.504)
And those habits take consistent effort that we have to agree upon that we're in on this journey together. And I want my kids to have a healthy relationship with their room. And so in kind of wrapping up that story, Tara, I'll tell you the reason why I became a clean person with my room wasn't because of what my parents did. It was quite the opposite. My brother and I shared a room in college. And I remember my brother wanted to keep the dorm room clean. And so I was kind of frustrated with my brother. Like, you're not my parent. You're not my mom or dad. And my brother said,
What kind of husband do you want to be? You know, someday do you want to be a husband that knows how to clean his room? Or do you want your wife cleaning it for you? He's like, he's like, man, that starts today, Kyle, that starts today. So you and I are going to own and take care of our room so we can be husbands who are wives aren't having to do that for us.

Tara Bremer (22:36.552)
Wow.

Tara Bremer (22:41.883)
Wow.

Tara Bremer (22:51.962)
Wow, kudos to him. That's amazing Big Brother energy right there. Listen, sidebar, I was at a hotel picking up my son from college and there was a man, you know how you, a lot of hotels have the waffle makers, like make your own? There was a man who was absolutely frozen. He did not know what to do and a young man was like, do you need help? know, this guy was like in his 50s and he didn't know how to do anything. And his wife comes up and she's,

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:5.814)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:18.926)
Yes.

Tara Bremer (23:21.828)
got this like Long Island accident. She's like, it's because I make his breakfast every day. He didn't know how to spray it. He didn't know how to do whatever. So, you I think you're right. Like we are teaching our children how to be adults. We aren't raising children or raising adults and um whatever we can do to support that. And I just love the idea that this can be a connecting thing with you and your daughter. You know, like it's a win. We want to have wins with our kids because otherwise we're just like, don't do this, don't do that, you know. um

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:27.988)
Mmm... Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:35.340)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:43.702)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:50.414)
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (23:51.432)
One other thing I want to come back to is em when I was talking about like walking past the office and going to the actual landing zone, I think that we can learn some lessons from teachers. um Think about a kindergarten classroom. Think about Mr. Rogers. Think about, you know, how things work. These teachers know develop early childhood development. They know what kids can do and the kids all have a little they

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:59.276)
Yeah. Yep.

Tara Bremer (24:19.044)
immediately start with the habits like these are this is where the backpack goes we are going to a song when this goes so if a teacher can do it we can do it we need to learn um but we got this we we are partnering with our kids and raising adults

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:20.982)
Yes, you're right. Yep.

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:25.730)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:31.692)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So what I go to is I know at times I have felt this, I'm sure. I think it's pretty normal where you think in my head as the mom, I have a lot already going on. And then I think I know all the areas we need to be building habits or organizing or something. And where do I start?
Um, cause it, that already feels overwhelming. So what do you do if you walk into a home and it's just everywhere needs help or it feels like everywhere.

Tara Bremer (25:4.338)
think that the best thing to do is, well, I always ask my client, what hurts the most? What makes you the maddest? Where's your rage? Let's follow the rage. um

Kyle And Sara Wester (25:12.790)
Yeah. Follow the rage. I like that. can do that. love that. What hurts the worst? What's my biggest stress or what is overwhelming me in my every day? That's good.

Tara Bremer (25:24.422)
Well, I'm helping um a client right now. Sometimes we help hoarders. uh We kind of do the gamut from hoarders to mid range all the way up to high end. And the house is pretty buried. uh And you immediately when you walk in, like the outside looks great. It's beautiful. But when you walk in, there's just, it's piles and piles of house. And so I think that the family has been like, we don't know where to start. But when I, you know,

Kyle And Sara Wester (25:35.544)
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (25:54.522)
walk in and ask her, you know, what makes you the maddest? And she says, well, that kitchen island has been covered up for a couple years. Let's do the kitchen island. That makes the most sense to me. It's where you're cooking every day. And so we just start pulling stuff off, you know? So I say, you know, if every morning you're like, where's my keys? And you're just so mad, then maybe start with your entryway. Maybe start with your laundry room, you know, whatever.

Kyle And Sara Wester (26:3.822)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (26:24.773)
whatever's making you the maddest.

Kyle And Sara Wester (26:26.412)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow the rage. I like that. Or like you said, where does it hurt the most? I think Sarah resonates with that. like follow the rage. Where am I like, where's the screwdriver? No, that's probably like that's where I've bought in way too many screwdrivers because I'm just like, where has it gone again, guys? Like we need to get this happened in place.

Tara Bremer (26:28.690)
Thank

Tara Bremer (26:37.575)
Yes.

Tara Bremer (26:45.160)
Hey, hey, what if we are multiple screwdrivers? Like, I don't know if you have a fancy one. I've got one I really like. It's ratcheting, you know, and it's got the little built in. Yeah, it's like 20 bucks. Get more than one and put an actual label from a label maker on it that says this is a toolbox, kitchen drawer, wherever you keep them. And then we or maybe yeah, I would do that. I would do that. Maybe even make them a different color, like get a blue one and get a red one.

Kyle And Sara Wester (26:51.446)
Yeah, yeah. That does sound cool. I don't have that. Yes. Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:3.374)
Okay. Yes. Love that.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Once again, a visual cue for them to remember that's where that one goes. And then we know when I find one, I know which one's missing too. I'm like, Oh, that one doesn't go in that joy goes in the other place. You guys put in the wrong place. Yeah, what I wanted to ask you one more question. I love what Sarah was saying there, but that first step, but one more question I was thinking of, what is lots of the biggest obstacle that you run into when people are reluctant to change?

Tara Bremer (27:15.686)
That's That's right.

Tara Bremer (27:20.818)
That's right.

Tara Bremer (27:24.636)
But it's easier to chase down, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:38.478)
You know, what is there kind of like, oh no, it's too hard. I can't do that. What is kind of the common things that you run into when you're like, if you just did this, it would bring so much more peace. there.

Tara Bremer (27:49.592)
Um, oh gosh, I think that a common obstacle is ADHD. First of all, uh I think, I don't know, it's, it really just depends on the person. By the time people get to us because we are a service business, uh they're ready. They're like, I don't know where to start, but I'm pretty sure you do. And so like,

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:56.170)
Okay, okay.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:7.917)
Yeah. uh

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:11.643)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tara Bremer (28:14.202)
You know, but on your own, what I usually tell people is they really do need a body double, even if you're not, um, you know, ADHD, it just helps so much. like, if you're having trouble in your home, you can't afford to hire out, get a trusted friend. And I'm not talking about hoarding. I'm talking about normal clutter. Like maybe you've got a closet where you can't walk in because there's just crap all over the floor. So get your friend, make it an event, you know, door dash, some special coffee. Um,

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:19.507)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:40.834)
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (28:41.320)
Put your phone on airplane mode. We are not checking the dryer. We are not checking email. We are there for the power of this appointment with a friend. I don't really think you should do it with your mom. I don't think you should do it with your sister. I think it needs to be someone a little bit more removed. And she doesn't even necessarily have to be doing anything. Maybe she can help you hang or something. But like just her sitting in there with you, it's creating this space where we know this is what we're doing. And then when we're done, maybe we do give ourselves a little reward. Maybe we go.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:48.940)
Yeah. hmm. Mm hmm. Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:6.731)
Yeah

Tara Bremer (29:10.364)
get a salad somewhere or pizza, I don't care. Make it a whole thing and you'd be surprised how much you can get done. I think people are just very distracted.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:11.500)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:20.908)
Yes. Yes. No, that's so good. So I love that body doubling. Yeah. We've never used that term before, but I really think that would be helpful. Lots of times when I'm talking to parents about how to change these habits, you know, they feel almost like if they're in the room, then they're enabling the kid um somehow to be more codependent or something. And I'm like, no, the kid just prefers you being in there. I mean, this is we know our daughter, the reason why this works is she's

Tara Bremer (29:39.473)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:50.094)
probably gonna need to do that in college. know I did. Sometimes when there was homework that needed to be done or studying, it was just always more fun to go do it with somebody else, even if they weren't even doing the same thing. They were just sitting there reading a book while you studied, right? It just helped you because because we know through through just the research that some of this stuff does feel like suffering. And suffering is is meant to be done with others. It's not meant to be done on your own.

Tara Bremer (30:11.240)
Mm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:16.982)
We can suffer more. uh Yeah. If you're suffering on your own, you're going to give up quicker. But if someone is co suffering with you, which is where the word compassion comes from, it comes from suffering with you. When somebody has the compassion, the body double with you to suffer with you in it, you can endure the suffering at least twice as long.

Tara Bremer (30:17.052)
That's quotable. Yes.

Tara Bremer (30:36.796)
That's, that's beautiful. That is so well said. And I use the word compassion in our work a lot. are compassionate organizers. Like we're going to take into account all these things. And it really does feel very personal. We're digging in people's nightstands for Pete's sake. And so like, we're there to normalize. We're there to body double, um, and, to get it done. So it's really, um, there's a lot of puzzle pieces.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:45.251)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:51.202)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:54.977)
Yeah.

Tara Bremer (31:6.597)
in our work and and I love it. I'm just obsessed with it, but I love this co-suffering compassion. No, that's great. You need to write a book. uh

Kyle And Sara Wester (31:7.542)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah, yes. Well, yeah, I love that we love the word co creating too. So when you're doing the compassion you're suffering with and then you're co creating with that friend, like you're saying a different ending to that story.
And so it's just so cool. It's like you're inviting that friend into that narrative that this has been a lone battle that you've had to fight. This is something you had to just suffer alone. And now that friend's like, no, I'll be with it in you and be in this with you. And then now you have the power to change the story. So it's awesome. So what I'm taking from this, Tara, is I love the steps that I think every listener can understand the habits of creating the cue and then the behavior that's gonna, that cue is gonna elicit. And then that, that reward that's gonna come of like you said,
It's not like this physical reward. It's this intrinsic reward of I know where that is. I no longer have to worry about that, which is such a way to bring peace to your heart and to your family. And how cool is that if the kids, if you're intentional about modeling this and inviting the kids into that, I mean, then you have these kids who grow up who not only do they already have healthy habits, but they can recognize unhealthy ones and they know the steps to then create new ones and they don't have to feel ashamed.
to say I need a body double. Like hello, like that could be like a common thing in a family. Like I need a body double. Yeah, like, hey, like, well, like I could say to my daughter, hey, did you pick up the dog poop? And she could say, I need a body double. Can somebody, can somebody go with me while I go pick up the dog poop? It makes it a lot easier to do that. Yes.

Tara Bremer (32:26.588)
That's right.

Tara Bremer (32:30.266)
Yeah, can anybody, anybody available?

Tara Bremer (32:44.080)
Yes. And we're scaffolding their brains. they're just, they're gonna get there where they can pick up the poop by themselves. They will, you know?

Kyle And Sara Wester (32:51.116)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, hey, where could an audience find out more about you, about the house piece, not the house of peace, but how could they find more about what you're doing and get involved with the work if they're interested in finding more or reaching out to you?

Tara Bremer (32:59.048)
Thank

Tara Bremer (33:5.615)
I have a very good newsletter. So my website is housepiece.net. uh If you go to housepiece.com, it is a Japanese architecture firm. So don't go there. You won't be able to read it unless you speak Japanese. So that's my website and you can sign up for my newsletter on a pop-up there. It comes out every two weeks and I give tips and stories and uh resources, but a lot of fun stuff happens on Instagram. uh It's house.piece is my handle and I've got

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:10.542)
Okay.

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:30.797)
Mm-hmm

Tara Bremer (33:35.660)
so many resources there, just funny stuff or tips sometimes and also just lots of normalizing. But that's a really fun place. Me personally, my Instagram is Tara B. Bremer. And I talk about all the things, parenting and whatever there as well.

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:42.573)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:48.674)
Mm-hmm

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:54.262)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, we appreciate you so much for coming on and sharing this information with our listeners. And I think it's a great time. This is going to drop over the summer. And so it'd be great for them to start putting some of these in place over the summer for the school year starts to be thinking about, Oh, new school year is happening. What cues and habits do I want to put in place? So I'm not
I can just follow the rage. Just follow the rage when that school starts. What am I getting most upset about? How do I then create those better habits? So we appreciate taking the time to come on with the audience and giving this great information, this great wisdom. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, you're welcome.

Tara Bremer (34:19.464)
Okay, let's go.

Tara Bremer (34:30.694)
Thank you