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Episode 100

It’s never too late to start parenting differently

March 25, 2024
In Episode 100, Kyle and Sara, LPCs celebrate reaching this milestone by sharing some of the ways the podcast has helped families. Then we dive into a conversation where we discuss some of the ways we have recently messed up as parents. We invite every parent, no matter where they are on their journey, to join us as we continue to grow and change. This parenting adventure isn’t about being perfect but about imperfect progress.

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Episode 100 Transcript:

Hello and welcome to our 100th episode at The Art of Raising Humans. We're so glad that you came to join us today because today's a very special episode where we're going to really just celebrate this, the journey that we've been on with all of you. And if you're a new listener or old listener, what we want to talk about is some of the successes and actually some of our biggest mistakes over the years, because we want to share an encouraging message in this podcast that it's never too late to start parenting differently today. So if you are a parent and you're wanting to parent with more love and more courage and just more confidence and knowing how to raise kids that are respectful and disciplined and kind, well, this is the podcast for you and we're going to share the three specific things Sara and I do to help ourselves whenever we do mess up, to make those mess ups into like gold, something that can really be learned from and you can grow from.

So I look forward to you joining us today. And I think today we're even going to have a special new intro and I think we're going to have our daughter Ellie doing it and maybe Brennan will be doing the music. So I hope you enjoy our brand new intro for a hundredth episode.

Welcome to The Art of Raising Humans. The Art of Raising Humans podcast is designed to support, equip, and encourage parents to have long lasting, deeply connected relationships with their kids that are free from fear and shame.

Come join us on this parenting journey. Hello and welcome to The Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle.

And I'm Sara. And today is special episode number 100. Woo. Yes. It's been a long time coming, right? So it's taken a, I don't know what, like a year and a half, almost two years. Yeah. I think it's about two years. And so what we wanted to do in this podcast today is we wanted this to be a really encouraging podcast. Cause we know for some of you, you might be brand new listeners who are just now starting this journey with us on trying to do some new techniques, try to approach parenting from a different place, moving away from fear and shame and, and going, what do I do now? Right. And so some of you, that's brand new.

Others have been journeying with us for quite some time and maybe it's working great. Maybe you're still fumbling through it, but we really wanted to use this episode to say, Hey, it's never too late to start today. Right. Yeah. And I think a piece of that is just feeling guilty too. I think we all feel, Oh, I've messed it up or I've been doing it the wrong way. Or even though I'm trying, which you and I are trying, we still mess up. Yes. And sometimes that guilt weighs on you. And so we wanted to share some things that we're very proud of with the podcast, some ways that people have told us the podcast is impacting them and helping their families and share some stats about people's celebration. Yes. A little time to, but one way we'd really love for you to celebrate with us is I think right now, Sara, we're at somewhere in like 50 reviews or something like that on our podcast.

We'd love to get to 100 to celebrate 100 episodes. Goes so well together. Yeah. It'd be great because it would help so many more families to be able to get this good information, to feel supported, encouraged, equipped to be the parents they want to be. So I'd love for you to stop right now. Just pause the pockets right now and then put a five star review and we'd love to get a comment from you because that would just really make our week to all of a sudden see comments. It'd be really encouraging to us and the work that we put in to help support you guys. So Sara, first, why don't you start with some comments in particular that you found that were just encouraging to us that people had already left on the podcast about how we've been able to impact them. Okay. So I'm going to read, I'm going to read these. Uh, one I liked was my wife and I have read numerous articles and books in an attempt to raise our kids much different than we were raised, which you and I are there with them.

Although we feel we are doing a decent job, there's always room for improvement. My wife introduced me to this podcast and I can't listen enough. It feels like it fills my parental cup up and gives me the tools I need daily to be a better parent. It's a daily struggle to be intentional with them, but we have already put, put into practice the principles we have learned and we can already see a difference. That's fantastic. Wow. That's really encouraging. And that's kind of why we started the podcast, right?

Was to really cause that. I remember we started this a couple of years ago because I feel like you and I were having great conversations nightly about how we were succeeding, how we were messing up, how to do it better. And I thought let's share this with people. Like I really think other couples could be encouraged with this.

So that's awesome to hear that. Yeah, yeah. We had gone through a lot of training, read a lot of books. Yeah. I mean our degree is kind of, and so we had invested a lot and we wanted to share that. Yeah. Yeah. Before you share another one, Sara, I wanted to share some stats. Okay. So first of all, by now, we've now gotten into that top 3% of parenting podcasts, which is really cool.

That's really encouraging to hear. I mean, first we only had maybe 30 listeners, 40, 50. We were excited about a hundred if we got a hundred weekly. Now we're well topping a thousand each week and that's really exciting, right? So we want to continue increasing that number. But another cool thing is I wrote down the top six regions that are regularly listening to the podcast. And of course America's number one, that was top by far. Then Canada, then Australia, then United Kingdom, then Germany. And I was just going to do top five, but then I thought top six would be cool because the sixth one was Singapore. Interesting, right? Yeah. So Singapore. Yeah. And then, and then the top two cities were Tulsa of course, because that's where we're at, right?

So we're in Tulsa. But the second place top cities was Sydney, New South Wales. Oh, fine. I know. Yeah. That's the second top city.

We should go visit. Maybe do a parenting conference. So if you're in Sydney, New South Wales email us and invite us to come because we'd love to visit and do a parenting conference. And the last stat I want to, I'd love for you to share into the comment is at this point we're over 50,000 downloads, which is awesome.

So it's really encouraging. Podcast has been downloaded over 50,000 times. Yeah. All right. Another one. These podcasts are so helpful, full of wisdom and practical ideas. I'm thankful to have these podcasts as a resource. Thank you. And I can't wait to listen even more. So just that one was, yeah, short and sweet and I loved it. Some of them, they're longer and in depth and, but we appreciate the ones that are just like, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Well it helps us when we're like, Oh, kind of tired.

I don't know if we, you know, we'd like, no, let's do it. We want to keep doing this cause we love helping parents. Yeah. So another one on the conversations and advice helped me stop overthinking everything. Right. Right. We all do that and simply love our kids better, honest and vulnerable and helpful all around. That's great. I love that.

We're trying to be honest and vulnerable, right? We are. Yeah. We're really, we're just parents and right. We're just having that conversation and kind of like if you're sitting right there with us, we would be having this conversation. Well, and what I thought was so cool leading into that, Sara. And once again, before we jump into the main topic, stop, go ahead, comment, review, or just reminder because we want to get that 100. Woo. We'll do it. Let's go.

Come on and help us do it. But, but I think today we just talked about some of the successes we've had and we'll talk about even some successes maybe with parenting throughout the, throughout our time we've been doing parenting. But today when we're talking about how it's never too late to start now, we want to talk about we're still messing up. Yeah. Right. And I don't think we'll ever stop.

I hope we don't. You hope we, I hope we don't because the reason why I don't know if I hope we know that's, that's what I hope. I don't stop messing up because I think the mess ups are for me, maybe because I just assume I will. It's like, that's where the gold is.

The gold is in the mess ups. And if I'm not messing up, man, that bar for our kids goes astronomically high, you know? So all of a sudden now they can't mess up either. Right? So I think somewhat, I want to have the freedom to do it sometimes messed up ways because then we can all learn from those, right?

I can learn from it. They can learn from it. They know. I'll just keep hoping, but I just know that that's not going to be a hope. That's gonna, it's not going to happen. This is how we're different. Yes. This is how we are different. I just assume I'm going to mess up. So, so that's where I think it's fun that you see it that way. Cause I'm more think about not, am I not going to mess up, but I want to get better and almost perfect what I'm going to do after I mess up.

That's the part that I actually think is more achievable because I'm the master repair, not quit messing up. Yes. Which category are you in? Listener, are you in the part where you think not messing up is something you can achieve? I don't think I can achieve it.

I'm just going to keep trying. Okay. So, so, so what we want to leave you with today is we're going to give you three specific things that Sara and I do after we mess up to make sure that we do less mess ups in the future. Right. Is that good to say? Right. Repair it. Yeah. Yeah. Repair it.

But repair it. Like not only with them, but with ourselves. Right. So really it's these three things that I purposely going down to try to make it more likely I'll do it better in the future. Okay. So I want to say for those of you who are new and those that have been journeying with us for some time, the goal of this podcast and the goal of this parenting style isn't perfection. Right. So the goal is not to do it perfect. So if you ever hear that, that's not what we're saying.

If you ever think we're implying that. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm saying that Sara, cause I think sometimes we do reels on social media, on Facebook, which if you're not with us on Facebook or Instagram, get on there with us. But some people will think we're showing it, how to do it perfect. And then they'll comment about how we're just, that's not our goal. Our goal isn't show how to do it perfect. It's just to show a different way of doing right. Right. That there are better ways to do it than others, but the goal isn't to do it perfect every time. Right. Okay. And then, and then the goal, I love this from a coach who's helped teach us is I like the goal of being imperfect progress, you know, taking one imperfect step at a time.

That too many times we're afraid as parents to take a step unless we can do it perfect. But instead to realize, man, you know, if you're in the throes of raising all these kids, whatever age you have, if you've got little kids to teenagers, it's just about taking one imperfect step at a time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, moving forward. Perfect progress. You keep, you keep moving, you're going to mess up and that's okay. Yeah. And so, so in light of that, Sara, there's some people who maybe have older kids and maybe they're just now finding us out and they're saying, is it too late? Yeah. You know, we hear that a lot from parents that come for help.

They'll say, is it too late? I've already messed things up too much. I've been parenting this way for a real, for a long time. I can see where things are falling apart. Is there any hope here? Yeah. Yeah. And your answer would be what? Yes, definitely. It is too late.

No, there is. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yes. I was going to say, wow. Okay. So yes, it's never too late to start doing that imperfect progress. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, and really the kids want you, no matter what age they're at, they want you to just start making that change. Yeah. So, so, so it's easy to get caught up and look at the past and look at all the damage that may be done, right?

All the ways in which we've really messed up or really ways we've done things in a dysfunctional, toxic way, yada, yada, yada, right? Those are going in your head, but that now is the time to change. Right. Okay. And it's never too late to repair because that's the power of forgiveness.

That's the power of redemption. It can go back and heal so much hurt in the past. Yeah. As long as we're willing to start taking that step now, own it now, start moving forward now. Even your own childhood hurts and wounds can be repaired in the process of you repairing with your child. Yes. Yes. It's really neat how that works. And even I wrote that in the sentence there of really the goal when I'm thinking about this is I really want to model to my kids, no matter how bad things have been the power of grace and redemption because they're going to need to know how to do that in their own lives. Right. Like, like I remember the, the one story that I share sometimes at conferences, but if you haven't heard this yet on the podcast, I remember there was one time, uh, we went on a anniversary trip to Arkansas and it was supposed to be this fun trip.

Uh, Brennan, our son had just been born. He was a little baby. And, and Abby was maybe four or something like that. And I brought my mom and she came along with us and she was going to watch the kids while we were off. And I didn't think to myself, maybe listeners who are listening to this can understand the problem we're going to run into is we rented a house, an Airbnb and it was a new house. And we had put Abby on a second floor above us to sleep up there and Abby just wasn't having it.

Like she was not sleeping. Well, a new bed, a new house. So she kept waking us up every night and I was so mad.

I was so tired. I was so grumpy. And I just saw the whole trip as like a total complete screwed up trip. Right. And I remember going to breakfast with a friend of mine at that time. And he asked me, Hey, how was your anniversary trip?

And I said, Oh, it sucked. It was horrible, man. And he's like, why is it? Well, because I was yelling at Abby. I was so mad. I mean, we have this picture at home that we look back at that trip where Brennan is with us as this looks like a good family picture of us holding Brennan as a little baby. But Abby was not in that picture because she refused to be in that picture because she was so mad at us.

She was done. So these strong personalities. And I remember going, what is going on?

Why won't you get in this picture? And it was so frustrating. But I remember something my friend said that day at breakfast that really changed the whole memory of that is he said, well, Kyle, I mean, it sounds like it didn't go well, but did you repair it?

Did you go back and talk to Abby? I said, yeah, I did. Like Abby and I made up, we learned from it. And he said, he kind of got teary eyed and he's not a guy who cries much, you know? And he just said, I said, well, why are you crying? And he said, I mean, that's beautiful, man. Like, what did you just teach your daughter how to repair these broken moments? How else would she ever know how to do it? That's what this whole weekend was about, man.

It was about repair, redemption, grace. And it helped me go, Oh, that's fantastic. This trip wasn't as bad as I thought. So I hope if you're listening that, that, that I'm sure you have those memories. There's those trips that you've taken where you had a certain intent to what the trip is going to be about. And you know, your kids just went a different direction and things blew up and you acted in a way you didn't intend to act. But I hope that you're able to go back and repair that and to see the beauty of that, that, that maybe that moment wasn't a big mess up. Maybe it was a big opportunity and an opportunity you never would have had if everything just went great, you know? So I think that at the core of this being able to start now is to look back at the mistakes and to be able to see grace and redemption and forgiveness is a big part of that change. Okay. I just think relationships are really messy.

They're always going to be messy when you're in a relationship with other humans. Things happen. Sometimes you get along great. Sometimes you don't and you're just modeling and helping them learn the skill of, okay, how do we navigate this?

What if we really blow it? What do I do now? And I think that's a real gift. It's not the end of it all.

It's not hopeless. It's not, well, now everything's going to be terrible forever. You can go back and change that story and rewrite that.

And I think that's really beautiful. So then I thought, Sara, we take a moment on our hundredth episode as we're celebrating to share some of our biggest mistakes.

Didn't you just share one? Oh no, that wasn't a mistake. That was like a beautiful moment of redemption and forgiveness. No, I'm talking about a big mistake.

I'll share one. Do you want me to go first and then you go? Or do you have one in mind right now? I'm not as good at storytelling. I'm not as good at storytelling.

Oh, you are. You're great at storytelling. Yes. I'm getting there. My growth mindset says I can learn how to do this, but I am not. You are, you're a catalog of stories.

But did you have a big mistake? Okay. The big mistake I'm thinking of just happened last summer and it was when we went swimming and we hadn't been swimming in a while at our local pool and we went there and I assumed Ellie, our youngest knew the process of going there. I give the kids a little heads up when it's time to go. And then when it's time to go, we all go and we're like, awesome.

We got to go swimming. But Ellie being the youngest and the most difficult for her to manage those big feelings and disappointment of leaving because she was loving the swimming pool. You know, she was just really enjoying, she did not want to go. And so this is something I tell when I'm coaching parents here at the office in Tulsa or throughout the world that I love telling the story because this just happened a year ago. And even as much knowledge as I have, as much, I've been training, there's still times I revert back to old habits. And so this moment I totally reverted back when Ellie, I said, it's time to go.

Ellie said, I don't want to go. And I'm like, Oh, that's cute. Let's go. And she's like, I'm not going. And so I leaned over in her ear and I said, grab your stuff and get out of here right now.

And I said it real stern. I tried to use as much anger and meanness as I could. And she responded as I assumed she would. And I whispered because I didn't want to be embarrassed by the other parents that were sitting around the pool. Right. So I didn't yell it. Um, so I said it real quiet in her ear. She got up and she was leaving, but I was now pretty upset.

I mean, my anger, my frustration was probably at like a five or six. I was definitely in my limbic system. Um, and so as we're walking out, I realized she forgot something. So in, in her haste to leave because I was upset, um, she forgot something.

And so I tell her to go get it. And so she takes her tube and is taking it with her. And I said, Ellie leave the tube. And she just continues to take the tube. So I take the tube, I rip it out of her hand and she looks at me and says, I'm going to have nightmares about this dad. And when she said that, that actually helped me shift to help me go, dude, what are you doing?

Like calm it down. Right. Like Ellie's not purposely trying to somehow assert your authority or something like that. She just didn't remember the process of leaving.

And it was hard to do that. She was really excited. And that's why we went right. So we went home, we did the repair. We talked about how to do a better next time. But that was a moment that I really was not the dad I wanted to be. And that just happened a year ago. And that that's a recent one where I really blew up, but there's been many moments even over this past year. So that's just one I thought would be interesting for the audience to hear. Yeah. That's a good one.

Lots of detail. What's one of your bigger mistakes? I don't remember a lot of detail. The one that immediately comes to mind is, I mean, this is probably in the last few months, maybe. I don't remember exactly. But we have this thing of getting out of the house on time. That does not always go well in our family. And I'm sure nobody can relate to that, honey. I bet everybody listening is they're all on time. Leaving to go to things super easy. We're probably the only ones where I I had.

I know this is a this is sometimes a challenge for our family. So I had given them the 30 minute, OK, put everything away. Get your shoes on.

You know, get your stuff. And went through the list and thought, you know, pat myself on the back.

I'm giving them tons of notice. They've got their list.

Everyone's in order. I've checked in. We're going to get out the door on time. And we didn't get out the door on time. OK. Yeah. How new things come up? I don't know. Yeah. But, you know, all of a sudden it's this needs to be done or that has to be grabbed. And it takes instead of five minutes, it takes 20 minutes to grab our Tuesday instead of two seconds.

But anyway, so by the time we get in the car, I know we're going to be late to our destination. And it was I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something that was scheduled. It was something that was important. I know I was thinking dentist appointment or class or something, you know, where they're like, yes, that'll be a $50 late fee or something, you know. And so when I get in the car, I start out thinking, all right, all right, we need we need to I need to check in with them about the situation and what what what we're going to face here. But I was I was upset, not in the best.

So I start like piling on the guilt. Yeah. Way to go. And the shame problem to a little shame to feel really, really, really bad kids because that's a great motivator, a huge fail.

People are waiting on us. We're late.

This you know, who are you? How are you going to show up in this life? You're going to be this late person. Are you you disgusting little kids? And I even gave you all the notice and I did everything right.

And you still messed it up. God. So. So, yeah. So after piling that on and I and I and eventually I caught myself and thought, OK, I just got to be quiet, which I know. I mean, then that was almost worse for them because I'm quiet. But I know I got to be trying to regulate yourself, get those emotions. And I had to get back into what is my goal here?

What am I? Yeah. You know, so eventually we circle around and I just tell them what's going on inside of me.

And but yeah, that's a great story. What are you talking about?

That was awesome. Yeah. Tons of detail. So both of those, we kind of used a little fear. We used a little bit of shame, you know? Yeah, I think my fallback is I'm not really going to threaten. Yeah, really.

I didn't threaten either. I just said it bad about. I just said in a really threatening tone, I didn't threaten anything.

So I feel kind of good about that. I didn't threaten to do anything. I just did it in a threatening tone. But, you know, you kind of laid the shame on did a lecture. I think that's my internal voice. And that's the one that I tend to roll, roll out the red carpet of shame.

No, I think it's a great example. So we're sharing those because we want you to know we're still on this journey with you. Sara and I are not coming to this podcast saying we do it right every day. Every day.

It's a choice. Every day you and I wake up and we decide the parents we want to be. Right. Right. And it really has to be intentional. It's not like it just happens on its own. Like we're not at that phase where we just naturally are these fantastic. It's like it is. I mean, I love I will. And as an encouragement, I think the more we do it, the easier it gets. I mean, I feel like some of my old way of thinking or doing something, sometimes I don't even visit their other things.

It's still very much a work in progress. No, I'm thinking about when we are. You're right.

We first started this. I we weren't doing spanking. We weren't doing timeouts. But I know as a kid, I was spanked. And I even at times may have gotten slapped, you know. And there were times where there was a conflict happening between me and the kids. And I would think in my mind, you just need.

Yeah, I know. If I could just slap you, I could just thank you.

This would change the whole moment. Oh, why can't I do that right now? That never crosses my mind. So so in that sense, you're right. I think our brains have been wired to see it differently. And so even I think our level of expectation on ourselves is different. Right. The way in which we would rate our success in that moment is different. Yeah. And we might catch ourselves quicker instead of getting further down the road.

You know, like, whoa, real that. For me, shifting from anger to love happens much faster.

It used to take hours. You know, I would hold on to that anger for a long time. But now I can switch from anger to love within minutes. And that's real encouraging. Yeah. You can see, you know, the growth. And that's encouraging because if it's always going to be this big struggle that discourages me. So I wanted to share kind of what we've done to some extent.

And partly this is mainly my my talking points. But I want you to share your thoughts about how you do it, about how we got to that point. Not that we're doing it perfect, but we know and realize when we aren't doing it the way we intend to and how we're able to bounce back and then do it better. Right. So I wrote down one of the first things I had to start telling myself is I'm doing the best I can.

I'm doing the best I can. I had to keep reminding myself of that. Like Kyle, in that moment, you were doing the best you could, because the thing that was really hurting me before was like, you should have done it better.

You know, you know better. You're trained better. You know, you teach parents to do it differently. You're such a hypocrite. That would be the voice in my head. So I'm doing the best I can was a very helpful statement to me.

So giving yourself. So when that parent guilt comes on, giving yourself grace, compassion, yeah, accepting yourself in this moment. Yeah. Yeah. So number one is saying that. And I also would say that, Sara, because I felt like the shame, shame was telling me all these other statements.

And I started to realize that shame wasn't helping me. It was only going to make it more difficult for me to change. I found the more I let shame play a role in my thoughts after I messed up, the more likely I was to do that exact same mess up. And that's that's the deceitfulness of shame is it makes it more likely you will then do that exact same thing. It doesn't feel right. I think all the messages out there say you need to feel bad. Yeah. So you will change.

Which is what we were doing to our kids when we were. Yeah, right. I mean, I have that so ingrained in me from all walks of life. I feel like, you know, religion and even in business. You know, you've got to hand out that that, you know, shame and guilt and shame. Right. And then people will be motivated to change. But what's funny is, as as we learn more about humans and how we all work, we don't do better in a bucket of shame. The more we sit in that spot, the more stuck we get in that spot. Yeah. In that spot of repeating the same behaviors, because our brain goes over that moment over and over.

And that wiring is stronger and stronger and doesn't get weaker. It's in the moment of, oh, this is what I want to do. And shifting out of that, that that becomes stronger in us. And we're more likely to go the direction we want to go. OK, and then the second thing I would do is also realize that acceptance is how change occurs. So the ability, once I'm saying I'm doing the best I can, then I'm moving into this phase of accepting myself and where I'm at. You know, meaning that in that moment, like at the pool, once I accepted that, that what happened there was just a lack of intentionality.

I assumed that Ellie knew how to regulate that. I assumed a lot of stuff. Right. And once I accepted that, oh, well, now I can actually change it. Yeah. So that helped me then move away and shift from beating myself up to just saying, hmm, what was it that I was actually trying to accomplish there? You know, and accepting them how they were.

Like Ellie wasn't. That's what I was thinking.

You accepted yourself and you accepted your child. Even though we have these expectations on ourselves, we have expectations on our children like, hey, we've been to the pool before. She should know how to do this. For me, we have left the house many times. Yeah. And I have the expectation that you can gather your things in this amount of time and get out the door. And when those expectations or I can remain calm in this moment or whatever it might be, those expectations aren't met.

And it sets up for that. Yeah. And so then the third step was setting realistic goals for what success looks like. So for going back to that situation with Ellie is what I did. Once I was able to say I was doing the best I could.

So was Ellie. Once I accepted both of us just as we were in that moment, that we didn't need to be somebody else. Then I could change the goal from I want Ellie to do what I'm saying when I say it to the goal is how do we succeed when we go to the pool? And then talking to her with that kind of language.

What does success look like when we go to the pool? What's the goal there? What are we trying to do? And when we leave, what does that look like? And then we could really imagine it together. And we say this a lot on the podcast. We could co-create a new ending to that story.

Involve them in that process. Don't just make it up and then deliver it. Because now we both have the goal in mind and we see what success is. Right. So for me, so those are the three that I did. I'm doing the best I can, accepting each other just as we are. No need to change or judge or shame each other. And then the third one, set realistic goals for what success will look like next time. Okay. So I thought those three, if you're on this path and you're trying to say, is it too late? It's not too late.

Just start taking these moments when you are not perfect, which is not going to happen, right? When you mess up, take these three steps to then change the moment next time. And I wanted to share with our audience, Sara, just something we saw on the TED Talk with Dr. Becky Kennedy.

Oh yeah, I love this. Where she shared in one of the endings about it never being too late. And she wanted the audience, and I encourage you if you're listening right now to do this, just picture you receiving a letter, right? And it's a letter you get in the mail and it's a letter from your mom or dad.

And no matter how old you are now, like I'm 47, right? And you know, this audience was all types of ages. And I'm sure listeners, you are as well. It's a letter from your mom and dad, and they're apologizing to you. They're asking forgiveness to you for maybe mistakes they make. Because of course they weren't perfect either. And they'd be weird if they were, right?

Wouldn't that feel great? Wouldn't that feel good for them to reach out and seek grace, forgiveness and redemption with you? And I don't think anybody would say, oh, it's too late. I mean, maybe some might have that reaction, but I think most people will be just happy it's happening now. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, it would be meaningful. No matter what point, big, small, it would be meaningful that they noticed you and how that impacted you and wanted to repair that. Yeah, so we just want to say thank you to all the people who've journeyed with us all this time. If you've been with us for a long time, or if you're brand new listeners just to this podcast, or maybe within the past few months or so, we will continue creating more and more content like this. We'll continue inviting you into listening to experts in the field on this.

So really our whole goal with this podcast is to help you be the parent that you really want to be for your kid, to create a relationship that's really long lasting, connected, close, trusting with your kid for a lifetime. So we're going to come bring authenticity.

We're going to bring vulnerability, honesty. We're going to talk about how we succeed and how we mess up. And even as a couple, how we try to do that in our marriage and with our kids. We are so glad you joined us. We appreciate you being on this journey and ask you to share this. Tell other people about the podcast. Once again, go ahead and rate and review the podcast. We'd like to get a hundred if I didn't say that already. We'd love to have a hundred by the end of this week after this drops. Yes, and just thank you for joining us and hope you have a wonderful day.

Yeah, we really appreciate you all. The Art of Raising Humans podcast should not be considered or used as counseling, but for educational purposes only.

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