Episode 216

You know the moment, you know the moment when you say, okay, five more minutes and your child says, okay, but somehow five minutes later, they act like you've personally ruined their entire life. The game shuts off, the phone gets taken, the iPad dies, the wifi gets turned off, and suddenly your child becomes a lawyer, a negotiator or a full body protest movements in your kitchen. And honestly, you know, as parents, we can lose it too.

because you start wondering, why is this such a big deal? Are screens ruining my kid's life? Do I need to be stricter? Do I need to come down harder? Am I just being too soft on all this? Why does this become a battle every single freaking day? Today, we wanna talk about why screen time escalates so quickly, what's happening in the brain and nervous system. And we're gonna give you five practical things you can do this week, you know, while it's going crazy over the summer.

that are actually gonna help you change these dynamics. And if as you're listening to this podcast today and you're saying, man, we wanna change how we do this in our home, that's why we love to help coach parents. So we'd love for you to reach out. If you're looking for help, reach out to Kyle at artofraisinghumans.com. I'd love to connect with you and talk about how I can help coach your family through situations just like this. But also take a moment to pause, rate, review, do all that good stuff to just give us feedback on how the podcast is helping you, but also how it can help other people.

and definitely share this with other parents you know are struggling with screen time over the summer. So sit back, get ready, enjoy. Hopefully you're in a beautiful place this summer. Hopefully it's not too hot. And get ready to be equipped and encouraged on how to handle screen time in possibly a different way.

Kyle Wester (00:01.038)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. I'm Sarah. And today, Sarah, it's summertime. And so we thought a really good topic to really just go down into is the topic about screens. So today we want to talk about screens. Yes. Screens are everywhere. Screens are in front of our kids, everyone's kids. It's a

Really big topic for parents. I think we're all weighing that yeah, and I'm curious how frustrated are you this summer? Do you feel hopeless about the screens or this you feel great about it? Do you feel like things are going? Well, I hope today the discussion we have will give you a different view of screens But also more skills on how to approach it with your kids. Okay, so this is not here's what this this podcast is not about It's not about screens are evil get them away. Everything's bad about it. It's not about

Technology is running our society. It's it's not about throw away every device and get it out of your house, right? So we're not gonna approach it that way because I don't think that's helpful I think your kids were all all of our kids our kids as well are growing up in a world where screens are present and We want to be able to understand better how to relate to them and to use them in helpful ways and they're just part of modern life and Screens can offer some positive things. They can be social they can man really be creative they can help with relaxing and

They have so many educational things you can do with screens. There's all types of ways I hear about kids connecting. And it's just fun. Lots of ways it's fun. I think it's really, really important for us to be able to look at and go, there's a lot of benefits to screens. There's some really great things that we enjoy and our kids can enjoy. So it's not the enemy. I mean, to be honest with we're doing this podcast right now and two of our kids are on screens right now, right? And they're having a great time connecting. a great time. Yeah, they're connecting.

They're playing some soccer on the Nintendo and they're killing it and it's helping us We know our kids are saying something fun connecting while we're working Well, and you know, I'd say there's so many times it's been used for when dinner preps happening and like we just need the kids to get out of the kitchen But we also don't want to pretend that there are no concerns because there's definitely legitimate conversations happening around dopamine

Kyle Wester (02:11.886)
and attention, that's a big thing. That's being studied in lots of different ways. It's really fascinating if you like that kind of thing. the emotional regulation is a problem. So many parents experience that. The kids get off the screens and they're freaking out. Sleep is a big issue. Oh my gosh, like these teenagers staying up all night and not going to sleep and then they're exhausted and that leads to other things like anxiety, gets bigger body image issues because they're comparing themselves to people through social media. comparison is a really tough.

Yeah, and then gaming can have good qualities, but also some bad ones as well, right? And how hard it is just for the developing brain that your kids have to transition away from screens. So today, what we really want to highlight is helping kids build a healthier relationship with screens. So I want to go back. I know that may sound odd. Every time I talk to parents about this, it sounds a little odd, but it is.

I think a better way to look at it is you're trying to help your kid while they're with you in your house to build a healthy relationship with the screen. Okay? And it's not using fear, it's not using shame, it's not using control, but it's using leadership and discipleship. Okay? So today we want to talk about why screens battles escalate so fast, what screens are actually doing for kids, what parents accidentally do that can make it worse.

and then five practical shifts that can help you today, help you immediately survive the summertime and make it a beautiful experience with your kids. And then also how to lead without turning screens into this constant power struggle that you know is happening to so many families. So let's start with part one. So part one, why screens are so hard to turn off. know, screens are designed by people making millions and millions, billions of dollars. They're designed to hold your attention.

Okay, and this doesn't mean that every app is evil, but many games, apps, videos, and social platforms are built around things that grab our attention, like the rewards system. my gosh, the streaks. That's yeah. The autoplay that YouTube can do and other ones can do, that's a big one. And just, one more round. I gotta get one more round. I'm sure no one's ever heard that. You know, like, let's turn off the games. I just got one more. I just got one more.

Kyle Wester (04:30.338)
Yeah, if I just do this one thing, then I'll get this next. Yeah, I kind of joke with my kids because I just want them to be aware of it, of how, you know, we might even do Duolingo, you know, language app, or it doesn't matter if it's a puzzle app, a game app, but it's how you can get so hooked into, I've got a thousand coins. It's nothing. It's a little image on a screen, but you feel like you accomplished something so great.

but I like to call it out because it's true. Even for us, you think, look at me, I just got a thousand coins. It's a little picture on a screen and yet I feel like I actually obtained something. Well, and it's really hitting something in all of us that we want to master things. We want to be good at stuff. And so it's just saying, you are good at this. Look at you. You've done it 300 days in a row. Look at me. I'm really becoming bilingual or whatever it might be. Yeah. But and that's a great thing. Mastery is a great thing. Right.

And that example, Duolingo, it is helping someone learn a language, right? So that is a wonderful thing and it's celebrating it. So again, it's just that back and forth of let's remember that it is lighting this up in our brain. It's giving us this little hit of dopamine and accomplishment and things Yeah, well, and we wanna approach it with some understanding that when we say just turn it off, that transition is often much harder for a child's nervous system than adults realize. It's not as simple as,

just turning it off. And I remember playing video games as a teenager, even to the 20s, like it is really hard to turn it off because your brain is wanting to win this thing. But especially difficult for kids who might have ADHD or struggle with transitions or anxiety or perfectionism, boredom, all those kind of things can make it even more difficult for them. So you have a legitimate need in your brain and your brain doesn't know how to do that other ways. And so this need is being met and you're asking me to cut that off.

That is incredibly hard and we need to realize depending on your child, their makeup, what's going on with them. We're asking really hard things. If that's their source of connection or they're bored, we're asking them, hey, disconnect, be bored, walk away from this thing that's helping you feel great about yourself. And so we just need to be honest that this is a hard ask. Yeah. Well, and also understanding that screens are often doing something for the child. They are doing a job for them. They may be helping them.

Kyle Wester (06:52.258)
You kids will say this, decompress. Escape stress is a big one. You know, the home is stressful or there's a lot of conflict with friends or school and it's just helping them escape that. Avoid boredom because you know that's the worst thing ever. Feel competent. You know, feel like they're actually good at something. Right? We all want to feel that. And like you just said, feel connected. In this day, lots of kids are connecting and feeling like they're talking to their friends the whole time. These are my people. These are my people. Yeah. Avoid uncomfortable emotions.

Lots of times it's easier to go to that. mean, many of adults listening to this probably, you've done that as well. Or sometimes they feel like it helps them regulate their nervous system. Maybe they are in this fight or flight mode. If I just get on that game, it's gonna help me chill out. But that doesn't mean, just because all those things can happen, doesn't mean we let screens run the house. But it does help us stay curious instead of immediately moving into shaming the kid, panicking over their use and assuming they're addicted or punishing the kid.

I love the idea of thinking about my child and thinking what need are they meeting right now with this screen, even if it's as simple as boredom, it's great to move from that space and to approach it and to realize how hard it would be to ask them to give that up. Yeah, so part two that we want to kind of dive into and dissect is screens are usually not the whole problem. This is such an important shift happening that we're seeing on social media, but also just with parents in general. It's such an important conversation that we're having right now.

because the question is no longer just how many hours is the right amount of hours, right? And that was a big talking point when When our first was born, I remember it was like, okay, no screens till two. And after that, only two hours of screens. there was this magical number and it was our best attempt, right? So I'm not even, I'm just saying it was our best attempt, but now we're learning more. There's so many different kinds of screens. So professionals now asking different questions, not just how many hours they're saying, well, what...

kind of screen uses. And this is as I kind of list these questions, I want you to be thinking about them too is like, what is it replacing? What's the screen replacing in their life? How does the child respond after they're off? Is it affecting their sleep? Is it affecting their relationships or their mood or their motivation, or even just their movement? Is it affecting their emotional regulation overall? So we want to be asking those types of questions rather than just trying to get a magic number that is going to work for every kid. Yeah. So

Kyle Wester (09:16.158)
screens often do expose struggles that are already existing. They often show cracks that are maybe already there in the kid or in our relationship with our kids. So sometimes the screen battle is really about other things. It's really about loneliness. For a lot of kids, they don't feel like they any friends. so it feels- This is their friend. Yeah, it feels like there's a lack of structure in their life. They're just kind of like-

I don't know what else to do. So I'm just doing this, right? It's really maybe about executive functioning and how maybe their prefrontal cortex is that they're having a hard time having self-control and finding other creative ways to spend their time. Or it might just be showing there's a nervous system dysregulation going on, some anxiety happening, and the kid is really seeking out help for that through the game. But the screen, if we're not careful, can become the flashpoint. It can almost become the scapegoat.

instead of us actually seeking out what's really the problem. I think this is really important even to think about with all kids, but teenagers, where they're needing those extra dopamine, that teen developing brain is seeking novelty. It's seeking that something new, something exciting, that dopamine, and games are a really easy way to get that. But if we just make the game, the screen, the bad thing instead of going, oh,

my child is needing this. This is where they're at developmentally. What are some other ways to do that, to accomplish that as well? Because it's legitimate. It's not, they're a bad kid who's lazy and always playing their games. Yeah. So, you know, we don't want as, as parents ourselves, but also parents we're coaching, we don't want them to panic about it, but we also don't want them to disengage. Okay. Both of those, I think are mistakes. Yeah. So we don't want them being, you know, going into the mindset that many of us can't like screens are destroying my child.

or also, it's fine, they're just kids. We really want to use this moment as an opportunity to once again lead, guide, and disciple. So part three, here's kind of what we've noticed parents accidentally do that can make it worse. Number one, they wait until they're already frustrated. They just...

Kyle Wester (11:24.974)
We let it go and then we snap. So we act like it's not a big deal. built up and then we just And then we blow at them. say, that's it, give me your phone or that's it. I'm getting rid of that thing. I've actually heard of some parents getting so mad. They were throwing away the devices. We're getting rid of all that. And now the limit feels so emotionally charged instead of predictable. it just puts the kid on edge, just makes the kid even more anxious. And then also I think for many kids, they just learn how to hide it better.

and be like, oh, how can I get away with it? Some of them will do things like wake up in the middle of the night and go play it then when mom and dad are asleep. So then they won't blow up then. Okay. And then number two was lots of times we make the screen, the villain. Um, you know, lots of talks, kids will come to me. I know my parents are saying it's ruining my brain and like there's brain rot and you know, I'm going to become an idiot if I keep doing this. And now the child, what I've seen this happen, I'm sure you've experienced it too. Now the child just starts seeking out evidence to defend the screen.

instead of actually listening to your concern. And this happens with drugs. This happens with kids I help that are smoking pot. as the parent becomes more scared and makes the drug the enemy, then the kid starts to, they're just not even receptive to anything wrong with it. So it's real success when the kid can at least go, I can see how the screens might be hurting me this way or that way. But if you don't allow them the opportunity to come up with that, they'll just defend it.

I mean, it's this thing that's been so great in their life. It's a lot of fun and you're wanting to throw it out. Well, lots of them are like, uh, yeah, this is what all my friends' parents, they say the same thing. They're all complaining, but you at school were like, they don't even know what they're talking about because it's great. The third one is we turn every conflict into a screen or phone conflict. If you don't stop, I'm going to take it from you. If you don't stop, you're going to lose. that we make it actually, you what I've seen, Sarah's you're making it the more important.

You know, the parent believes the kid cares about it more than the parent, but it's because of that reaction that the kids thinks that is what they care about more because it seems like the parent believes it too. Kind of bring it into the relationship. so then the phone or the screen becomes the center of that relationship becomes everything we're talking about. It's the token being traded. And then before we start to lecture while we're dysregulated. So a child in survivor mode is not ready for a Ted talk.

Kyle Wester (13:48.044)
You know, no matter how great you have, and I've done some of these. You might be brilliant. You might have the best advice in the world. Yes, or a speech about responsibility and motivation and setting goals. not in that space, right? And then number five is we remove the screens without actually helping the kids build something else. Yes. And I think that's probably one of the biggest mistakes. it's so important, right? Because we, like we have already highlighted, this is really doing something for the child. It's meeting legitimate needs, right?

We need friendships. We need things to do when we're bored. that, know, that dopamine, that happiness, all the feeling accomplished. And then we just wipe it away from them and they don't have anything else to fill in those gaps. So we need to think, okay, what are they needing here? What's the most and how else can we fill that in? And so we know this is huge right in the middle of summer. And, but here's what happens if we just remove the screens, but don't help create other healthy things like you're talking about, Sarah.

like rhythms, like movement, meaning like what other activities are we gonna do? Like connection, how we connect. So many times, Sarah, the parent is busy and the parent then is mad that the kid's on the screen, but then the kid has nobody else or anything else to go to, and chores or things like that are not good replacements for screen. Yes. You know, and I just remember that, that if you're gonna replace something fun,

replace it with something else that's fun. And have we been teaching or modeling to our kids boredom tolerance, like the ability to handle boredom or turn boredom into something creative. Yeah, or real world engagement. know, like kids will naturally start to drift back to the screen. So they will wait you out. You they knew you blew up. You took it away and then I'll be on my best behavior for the next few days. And then they'll get too stressed out or too tired or too busy. And they can't monitor me. And you know, this is the rhythm. This is what happens in so many homes.

And that's why just taking it away isn't the answer. We've got to be curious what's underneath and how are we helping them with that. So part four is here are five things that you can start doing this week. So if you're in the middle of summer, you're pulling your hair out, you're wanting your kids to have a healthy relationship with their screens, here's five things you can do today. So number one, Sarah, I really, really like this one. I think it just, it's not the way I was thinking about screens early on, but we now do. Number one is don't just create limits.

Kyle Wester (16:10.562)
but create rhythms. So instead of like random reactions, create predictable patterns. Talk more about that, because I love that idea of you not just going, what is the right time? How do we put screen time on this? How do we say just two hours on Monday? it's like, no, you're creating healthy rhythms with the device. But what does that look like?

Well, I feel like you already you seem loaded up with ideas. I'm ready, but I to yours first. I already have my ideas. No, no, no, you keep going. Okay. So yeah, what I love to see when I'm helping kids with this is I want to really help raise their awareness of what's happening in them. Because I remember being a kid playing video games. I remember there was a time where I was thinking like, I'm starting to feel kind of gross. Like I've played it way too long. Or I recognize like, oh, I'm trying to go to sleep, but I can't go to sleep. I don't like how this feels. Right. And so

we're making regular rhythms all throughout the summer of like, Hey, first of all, I want them to be aware of that. I want them to be able to feel that within them. But also just rhythms as a family, you know, like there are days that we as a family are like, yeah, we'll go do some screens. No problem. We'll do this. But then, then we easily transition to something else fun, right? It's very intentional. So I can say to the kids, Hey, tomorrow we're going to be doing this. This says we'll have some time in between there. If you guys want to get on screens and do stuff, right. And there's like this rhythm, there's, there's no energy around it. The kid knows when we get off, we're getting off for a

We're not getting off because you've been bad and you've been on it too long. And we hate screens. Yeah, and they always think like, like to me when you're creating limits, not that limits are bad, but it's like you're always lots of parents are thinking, how do I stop you from doing more? I want the kid, it's not about stopping you from doing more. Like there's always going to be more. You're to get more screens later, but like have that rhythm of like screen time, play time, you know, family time, know, dinner time, all those kinds of

And I think the predictability of that really helps calm things for kids too. Instead of feeling this anxiety of when can I slip away? When will, you know, and just game forever or any moment I have YouTube clips or Tik Tok or whatever it might be that your, your kid is seeking, knowing kind of this pattern to it, this way of trusting this is going to come around. It helps them calm down about it instead of feeling like I've got to battle and argue and fight and sneak.

Kyle Wester (18:23.276)
sneak away for this thing. Well, even just so, just some normal rhythms that you probably have or thought about. It's just phones not being present when we're eating together, right? We're having a family meal. no, gaming stays in shared spaces, you know, not in private space. I think that's a really good rhythm. screens also going off before bedtime, you know, that there's a rhythm about when we turn these off, when we go to sleep. Yeah, there are some that are definitely, I think that one, I just want to say, you know, there are definite times that's going to, you're going to make it harder.

Right? Kids can easily slip into just one more level, one more video, one more thing when it's late at night. So obviously if you just time these things for the day, that's going to make it a little bit easier and not having them in your room at night. So there are some things that you're just setting yourself up for more. Well, the reason why this is important is because kids, especially in today's age, a lot of kids have anxiety, dealing with the, the unknown of what's happening in the world in general, but also the stress of school, all those kinds of

these predictable rhythms help their nervous system relax. So when they know what to expect, they're less likely to be dysregulated. So second thing, let's help our kids transition out of the screens. instead of just saying it's time to turn it off, how do we do that? How do we transition well? Now most parents do a pretty good job of giving warnings and saying, you got five minutes, you got 10 minutes, whatever. But the transition still needs some support.

So instead of like, hey, five minutes up, turn it off. That's where lots of things start to escalate. You could ask some simple questions. Just be curious, like, hey, what level are you on? Or like, hey, show me what you're doing. After this round, we're finished. In 10 minutes, we're gonna move from this to dinner. So these are all simple things you could be saying to help that transition go better. Yeah, I think the big point in that is that you're helping them.

you're they're all involved in this world, right? Even if it's just videos, they're watching, they're kind of consumed with it. So you're helping their brain go, Oh, there's this other world out here. Something is coming. I'm moving towards something. So you're just helping their brain kind of just wake up to everything else. Yeah, start moving in that direction. So however that looks for you, even if you're sitting down like you said, and saying, Oh, what level are you on? All this under they're now talking to you, they're engaging with you, and they're talking about this thing. So it just moves them in that direction. And so the the

Kyle Wester (20:47.106)
basic concept in that step two is connection helps their brain shift. So just keep that in mind. Connection will help their brain shift, not because the child is in charge, but because transitions are hard for the kids developing nervous system and having you there and connecting with them helps them calm that down and make that transition. Their brain is literally having a hard time. So they're going to need your support in not in a threatening way, but in the supportive way to say, I know this is hard for your brain.

Let me assist you, because my brain's a little better at it now. So number three, name the pool, the P-U-L-L, the pool that they're feeling, without shaming the child. So instead of, you're addicted to these, which is a lot of parents feel that way and are saying that. Try, yeah, these games are really good at pulling people in. Yeah. They're really hard to put down. Or it makes sense that this is hard to stop. That was really exciting.

Yeah, yeah, just recognize it because it really is right. I mean, I don't know if you I'm sure every parent has been scrolling at some point and realizing, wow, how much time, how long have I been doing this because these things are literally made and call it out. Talk about it. Talk about for yourself. I talk with my kids all the time and just you just want to call out so they are raising their awareness of how these things are made to keep them hooked in. Yeah. So you like Sarah saying we want our kids to develop awareness of it, not be shamed.

Yeah, so the more aware they are the more power they have to own it take responsibility for it and change And it's kind of almost when your kids can start saying wow, it was really brilliant You see how they made this and this to keep me play, you know in a fun way But again, it's not even like oh the video game is bad Yeah, it's just seeing how these these businesses have built the game and what they've done and yeah Yeah, and they've done a really good job of doing it. Yeah Recognize that and go okay, but now I'm go ahead and walk away. Okay, so then the number four

is you wanna protect what the screens are crowding out, okay? So the goal is not less screens. The goal is more life. Because really, the more you talk about less screens, less screens, less screens, the more our focus is getting less of that in their life, the more that's where their focus is. We wanna shift the focus to like, no, I wanna shift it to more life, more sleep, which that's what's so funny, teenagers,

Kyle Wester (23:11.918)
are always wanting more sleep. And yet then they're constantly on the screens. Yeah. It's like, if you were on the screen, you would have more sleep, you know, more movement, more contribution that you could contribute around the house or though more creativity, more outdoor play, more actual real connection with your friends, more family time. mean, some of the kids that they're like, we used to do family nights, family game that then we stopped doing it. Yeah. And like if the kids knew I was putting up the screen to go do that.

Okay, I mean, most of them I've spoken to, they're excited about that. They like playing the family games, you know? And also just learning real world skills. Like I'm glad the game is teaching you stuff, kids, especially as they're growing up into the teenage years, they know they need some skills for adulthood. But they're playing the screens because they're anxious about not knowing those things.

So when we're off the screens, we get a chance to learn that stuff and you're gonna feel more competent and capable. Even hobbies, know, it's just like, yeah, it's just that, let me, how can I engage in real life? Yeah, so we're not trying to, you know, the big idea there for the kids is we're not trying to remove the joy of the video games. We're trying to make sure screens don't quietly start to replace everything else. An example I use all the time, Sarah, it's like, if we were eating donuts all the time, slowly our taste buds would actually change and we would start to find healthy things, like even fruit and stuff.

doesn't taste as good. Definitely vegetables will taste gross because like the sugar will be such a, and so the kid, if they're eating it all the time, they're just not gonna ever develop a taste for the other, right? Okay. So some summer examples that before screens, maybe the kids, they do something with movement, move their body. Maybe they contribute around the house. We do some stuff to do the dishes, clean up around things, connect with a real human. Like we intentionally connect with them and have fun with them, play with them.

or do something creative or productive. Like I know, we talked about how our kids are on screens now, but this morning our youngest was doing tons of drawing and having tons of fun coloring. All that was going on for a couple hours this morning. And she had read. Yeah, that's true. She the morning with reading. She's been getting through all the Harry Potter she some sketching drawing. And so that was till 11 and then she got on the screens because we're doing the podcast right now. Okay, number five is co-create the plan.

Kyle Wester (25:28.866)
before the conflict. So I want to reiterate that because I think a lot of times we miss that. Co-create the plan before the conflict. This feels very important. This is very important to what we teach because we're very big on co-creating and not just like manufacturing stuff on the fly. I want to be really intentional. some questions that you might ask is, hey, what part of this feels hardest to you, to the kid, the ability to get off the screens? What helps you stop without exploding?

What feels reasonable this summer? Like when we're talking about, let's create what the summer rhythm is gonna be like with screens. What should happen if the plane isn't working? That's a big one. I'm constantly, because lots of parents will implement a plan with the kid, they try it once and it doesn't work. And I'm like, that's not a surprise. Of course, the kid thought it would and then the kid, it just didn't work. So we go back and reevaluate. And then how do we make this feel fair and healthy?

Okay, so these are just possible questions. Yeah, I mean, I love these questions because I think sometimes when we think how do I co-create this? How do I collaborate with my child? How am I going to come together with them and make a plan? Because a lot of times you can feel like you're just handing off, know, kids will just make up a plan or parents are worried that their child will just say, well, they're just going to tell me 10 hours a day. so we wanted to give you some questions as what a jumpstart you and help you have an imagination about how to do this with your child.

And we've done this so many times and Sarah, would say 80 to 90 % of the time the kid surprises the parent. Yeah. The kid actually picks reasonable times. You know, the kid, it's occasionally a kid will pick a ridiculous time. And then you just say, Oh, wouldn't that be great? That'd be crazy, dude. do it. Yeah. You laugh with them and then you shift it. Yes. And you add, so these are just a springboard of questions just in case that's a little hard if you're not used to that yet.

you we've been able to practice this. And I want to reiterate, collaborative does not mean permissive. It doesn't mean the kid is telling you what's going to happen, you know? It is collaboration. You are leading it. But kids are far more likely to cooperate with a plan they helped you shape.

Kyle Wester (27:36.288)
especially the tweens and the teenage. And so one more time, if you feel like it falls apart, you come back, you go, we made this plan. It's not working. Okay. What do we need to shift here? Because we said two hours and yeah, yeah. You know, then you never did the dishes and, and Sarah, people are so like, we, we do have really high expectations. If our kids are doing a screen, we don't, I don't even want it to end with, more. Can I have more? Can I do more? Like I tell the kids that's not, that's not success.

To me, success is we agreed upon a time, you shut it off, and then we're done. And so that's where I wanna get, so I'm even, when we're guiding and leading those conversations, you're still telling them what you want. You're like, want them to shut up, I want us to be able to be in great moods and move on. If we're upset about, we don't need to play this stuff. I don't- That's not working. We to change something, right? And they want to feel good. They do. That's the thing. They wanna hop off, they wanna, they also-

I think it calms them because I, okay, this is how it's gonna look. This is what I'm gonna do. And it gives them a sense of control over it instead of feeling at your mercy. Yeah. So in this last section, we know what your question is. Okay, that's great, Kyle and Sarah. But what if they still explode? What if they blow up? And so they probably will sometimes, but what that doesn't mean, we want to clarify what that doesn't mean is that your child is inherently broken and messed up, you know, or that you failed.

Yeah, you know or that the boundary was wrong even right that it doesn't mean any of those things it means screens are powerful really powerful transitions are difficult and Regulation is still a skill that your kid is developing. Yeah, so some helpful things you could say is hey I know this is hard. Remember the limit is still the limit I'm not arguing about the screens right now and also we can talk when we everybody's calm

and regulate it. So those are some helpful things to do when they do explode. But remember this, that calm leadership is more powerful than your emotional intensity. And so we don't want to match their intensity with our intensity. Remember, you're guiding them to know how to transition. And so we don't want to say, well, the way we transition is you explode, I explode. That's not success. So in our final thoughts, I know we've covered a lot about the screens, is that screens are not the end of the world.

Kyle Wester (29:59.768)
but they also aren't necessarily neutral. They are powerful tools and kids need their parents to help them learn balance, awareness, limits, emotion regulation and how to build a full life outside the divide. And then we want for our kids, we want them to have a full life, but you don't have to have a full life absent of screens. That's just not gonna be possible going into the future. They're gonna need to know how do they...

make it part of their life, but still have a full life outside of it, okay? So the goal is not to raise kids who never enjoy screens or think screens are evil and judge everybody else who's on them. The goal is to raise kids who can enjoy screens without the screens running their nervous system, running their relationships, dominating their sleep cycle, changing their identity or their emotional world. But in order to do this, and this is something that Sarah and I always have to go back to to make sure we reassess,

It takes practice, it takes connection, it takes boundaries, it takes leadership, it takes discipleship, it takes you being intentional on a daily basis about it. It takes consistency and a whole lot of patience and grace. And that sums up the art of raising humans in a world full of screens. So I hope that was helpful to you and I hope it gives you tons of confidence and courage this summer.

as you're facing this with your own kids, because they need your leadership on this subject. Because the world, their leadership is do it as much as you can, because it makes us more money. And we don't want them to be slaves to these devices, and neither do you. So hope you're having a wonderful summer. Thank you so much for listening.