Episode 191

Kyle And Sara Wester (32:23.384)
How many of you listening to this podcast today feel like you are the default parent? You meaning that you're holding most of the load when it comes to raising ⁓ these beautiful human beings. How many of you listening feel like you're the non-default parent? I know I felt that way so many times ⁓ as a dad, ⁓ early on when the kids were young and I didn't know what I was doing and all too often I felt useless and I felt out of touch with what my kids needed and I didn't just...
I didn't know, understand, seem like, you know, when I stepped in, just created a bigger mess and more chaos. And I'm sure, I'm sure you guys have experienced that yourself in your own ⁓ marriage or your own relationship with the other parents, that so many times it's better to just maybe have them not there because you've got things in place. ⁓ And this can really cause so much conflict and dissension within a relationship. And it can really end up hurting the family if we don't know how to work through this ⁓ and really see this.
in a healthier way. today, Sarah and I wanted to dive into this because so many families I've been coaching lately, this has just kept popping up time and time again, where one of the parents felt very out of touch and the other parent felt very, very overwhelmed and they didn't know how to bridge that divide. So we're going to give you clear steps going into 2026, how to have that conversation as the default parent and the non-default parent come together and work as a team. I wanted to also tell you, we're excited about
some really cool speaking opportunities that are popping up. If you're in Tulsa with us in 2026, January 26, Tina Payne Bryson, five time New York time, bestselling author is going to be speaking at a school here in Tulsa at Riverfield. And I just wanted to start putting that we don't have all the logistics yet, all the details yet, but those will be coming soon. So keep listening to this podcast. If you want to come hear her speak, she'll be doing like a book signing and all that kind of stuff. And just going to give you fantastic tools.
⁓ Also, if you've not taken a moment to stop to ⁓ rate, review, and comment on the podcast, we'd love to hear your feedback. Are you the default parent? What does that look like for you? What's your experience like? Are you the non-default parent? And how hard has that been in raising your kids? I'd love to hear that. So definitely check us out on YouTube, on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all those places you can find art of raising humans. ⁓ And we hope you're having a great holiday season right now and that you enjoy this episode.
Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.326)
Hello and welcome to the Auto Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sarah. And I hope right now that everybody's having a great time celebrating the holidays, right? Yeah. Christmas time's going on, New Year's is, I ⁓ don't know if we're dropping this after New Year's a whim, but- Somewhere around the holidays. I hope this time has been great. We've done our best to really provide a lot of great interviews and content ⁓ to help support you guys through that time, through the holidays. Also to give you some-
great ideas about how to do 2026 in a different way. Um, Sarah and I are very passionate about helping supporting you going into this new year. If there's anything in particular that you're wanting us to talk more about, please reach out to us to let us know. And we might do a whole podcast just on that topic. So I want you to know, we do read those feedback. If you sent us like, if you reach out to me at Kyle at art of raising humans.com, that's the email reach out and say, I'd love for you guys to talk about this subject or dive more into this topic.
Or you can also reach out to us through Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. We're on all those art of raising humans, all those platforms. So reach out to us and ask us because that's kind of how we come up with these ideas. Like even today's topic we're going to do, Sarah, is just we're coming up with this because of so many people I've been coaching lately, these different couples who this seems, this topic comes up a lot, right? ⁓ Specifically, it happens with the dads more than the moms, right? That tends to be the theme, but it doesn't have to be that, right?
but it does feel that way. It's often, but not always. Yeah. So we want to talk today about the default parent. Yes. Yeah. What does that mean? What is the default parent? I mean, I feel like that's circulating so much that probably a lot of people are familiar with it. But just to make sure we're all on the same page, the default parent is the one who is keeping track of the schedules, who is the one who's usually connected to the kids and all the things going on with the kids. ⁓
the routines and, and knows that this child likes to wear green socks on Tuesdays. And you know, it's like all the ins and outs, the nitty gritty, the default parent is that person holding the mental load often all those kinds of things. the default parent isn't doing this intentionally. Right. It's usually not, it's not, like the name implies, it's just the default. It's usually not something that's like set out intentionally. It's

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:23.566)
how things have just evolved in your family. Maybe the other parent is gone more often. You're around more than the other parent. There's all kinds of reasons why, but ⁓ you know. Well, you know, it's funny. I know when we talked about it, we're like, no one chooses it evolves. I do remember as a new parent, since I didn't know what I was doing, I did kind of choose you to be the default parent. I was even like, honey, I don't know what I'm doing. These kids are so little. You seem to have your head on about this. ⁓
You're the default. So whatever you say goes, but I would say, it is, this isn't always true, but again, it is often the mom, you know, and I think that happens for reasons of ⁓ you, you've had, you were pregnant and you had the baby, you know, maybe there's all kinds of adoption or other things, but a lot of times you're the, the, the mom is often the one to step in with the feeding and the early needs of the baby.
And so things from there just kind of grow. Well, I'd say even this is not an excuse, but I never saw my dad be the default parent. Yeah, he was my mom. So it was easy to go into having kids who just like, Sarah, do your thing. This is what moms do, right? like dads are supposed to like in my mind, and once again, this sounds ridiculous, but I'm supposed to jump in later when they need me to take them out and teach soccer or teach these kind of things, right? But in the meantime, you're just telling me, I mean, really, I'd never changed a diaper in my life until we had a baby.
I'd never put a baby to sleep. I'd never done any of that stuff. And you had done it many times because you'd helped out at church nursery or you babysat all those kinds of things. And so to me, I'm like, whoever knows this better, ⁓ you do it. I think there's still a lot of society that teaches this is the woman's job, not the man's job. So that is very, very true. ⁓ I think I see that shifting some and it's so beautiful to see couples more, more.
take on those roles differently and intentionally. But, ⁓ but I'd still say it's way skewed towards, well, the woman's going to do that. Well, talk to me as the one who was kind of the default parent early on, what's that experience like? Like, is it fun? ⁓ Do you enjoy that? Do you want the pros and the cons? Sure. Yes. Cause I think, okay. Also, I want to say this conversation really isn't about one being right, wrong, bad, good. It's really.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:45.496)
to bring awareness and conversation to it and then ⁓ how you guys as a couple can kind of be intentional with it ⁓ and open up some conversation. So ⁓ I just feel like that's really important to note. But okay, the default parent. So the down or the hard part is you feel a lot of pressure. Everything's on your shoulders ⁓ and ⁓ the blame, ⁓ the ⁓ I've got to figure all this out. You have to figure all out because
all kinds of situations come up you've never been An example would be like, man, we're going to Colorado for the first time and Abby's screaming in the back and I'm like, honey, take care of that. Like, what are you doing? Like, help her calm down, you know? If the baby cried, it was definitely my job to hop up while you sat there watching the movie or And I'd be like, because I don't know what to do. That was my mindset. I don't know what to do, you it's my job to create the routines and to keep track of all the pieces, you know, the daycare and the classes and...
who needed cookies or was there an extra change of clothes in the diaper bag? my gosh, that's yeah. I never packed the diaper bag like you did. Right. And it was kind of like if there was nothing, if we missing something out, I'd be like, why didn't you bring that? How come you didn't bring that snack? You know, she likes that snack. Yeah. Anticipating the weather, anticipating every need, every situation. There's going to be a storm tonight and the thunder might wake the child. I mean, from the little tiny things like that, that seem, you know, what have they eaten? Are they eating a balanced diet? You know, all that.
So you feel all the pressure of creating everything, holding everything, managing everything and the responsibility of making sure it all goes well. Were these the positives or the negatives? Those are the negatives. The positives are ⁓ I did get to master. Yes. You didn't even have an offer. There's something you never mastered because you didn't get the opportunity. I mean, that's just on us, but that didn't happen. ⁓ And then I also got the attunement and the attachment.
Our kids were very attached to me early on ⁓ and, ⁓ you had to work much harder at building that later. And I got that, that attunement, that attachment, the, ⁓ in some ways, the control of things, you know, and which helps manage the anxiety of also being the default parent. know, have all the anxiety and pressure of it. So then you want it, you control everything to manage all the pieces, but then you also get to do that part, you know, and build the things.

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:8.652)
and the routines and stuff. So, well, I love this quote. ⁓ I desperately want help, but I'm afraid to let go. Yeah. Right. Like I think it kind of describes. all the pieces are on you and you can't ⁓ risk the Chancellor's pieces might fall apart. Yes. Yeah. So then I want to talk about the experience of being the non-default parents. Okay. So, ⁓ I'm sure there's the positives and negatives to this too. Right. So I guess the positives will be, although you're missing out on that stuff, you don't feel burdened by all these things. You're like, it's really cool to be like, wow, you got it.
Awesome, let's go. ⁓ So just assuming that's all taken care of makes it to where lots of stuff is just a lot less stressful. So, ⁓ yes, exactly. I could just like enjoy myself and then bags just fall. And then for me, I justified it by you taking it on. This is going to help me be more fun and be less mad or be less angry, right? ⁓ Because then I'm not worried about all this stuff. I'm not trying to control it. You know, I'm allowing you to have it, you know? And so there is this kind of weird talk in my head that was kind of happening there, but
you definitely feel unimportant and a little unnecessary, which sucks, right? And then, and then you feel like when you're doing the right thing and you're jumping in trying to help, you feel like it just makes everything worse. And you did it all wrong. Yes. I don't know how many times I just heard this from a couple just recently where they were talking about how they kind of like their spouse being there in the morning.
during getting ready for school, but then they kind of don't either, right? And they don't know how to say that. They don't know how to tell that spouse that. Like I do like you a bit, but when you're there, it actually goes, it does go ⁓ much worse. And so then you're always afraid to mess it up. ⁓ So then you're like, you see your spouse struggling and you're like, okay, okay. I think I love my spouse. I want to help with this, but it seems like every time I help in, just causes chaos. And then, you know, my spouse gets mad at me.
And then it's, you're frustrated with me that I messed it up, but yet they seem like they wanted me to try to help. don't want, it seems like a, almost seems like, and I know this is obviously just a one-sided perspective. It's like a lose-lose. It's like, if I don't jump in, I'm not helping. If I do jump in, I screw it up, right? And this is the frustration I hear from a lot of dads who feel like, ⁓ said you wanted me to help, and then I did. And then like, so it's better. And then I think I could get the lie in my head and some dads do in these situations. It's like, it's just better for me not to be here.

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:31.126)
It's better for me to leave for work early and just be gone all day and then show up maybe at night to help put them to bed or something. Yeah, I've seen that where then they'll just kind of just sort of fade into the background because they feel very incompetent. They or they feel micromanaged. know, you've got to tell me every little thing and I'm not able to bring much of myself to this moment because I'll just mess it up. Yeah. So you're wanting more involvement, but you're kind of unsure where to start. mean, I remember this just
hitting me when we were doing bedtime. I had to work late for many months and wasn't there a lot of time when they were going to bed. ⁓ And so I came home one night and I remember Abby was maybe four or five and she was really excited about me being there. And I was like, this is fantastic. I'm so glad I was home. said, dad, I want you to put me to bed. And I was like, this is great. And I remember we were walking to her bedroom and then she looked nervous and she said, ⁓ I think I want to change my mind. I don't want you to put me to want mom. And I was like, what are you talking about? And immediately I got my feelings hurt.
And I was like, what are you talking about? You said you wanted me. And she's like, well, no, I want mom now. And then I was just like a petulant child. was like, fine, you want mom? Then you get mom, OK? And she's like, well, I'm just saying. And then you were like, Kyle, she's just saying she's not used to you putting her bed. She was used to a particular no, honey. No, she chose you. And I was being like, you're the better parent. I'm such a horrible parent. Look at that. My own kid doesn't want me to put her in bed. And that's a cycle I think a lot of parents in this case, the non-default parent, feels. So then they start thinking, why try?
If I'm just gonna be told I'm doing it all wrong, right? So then there is this like, I'll just throw my hands up and say, screw it, I'm not doing that. And then it just causes more and more conflict because you're not learning the skill that the default parent was able to learn, right? And so that's really what the tension is, is I don't know yet know the rhythm. I don't know the skill. I don't know how to ⁓ not take this personal. Okay, and that leads to the kind of tension.
that brings, right? The kind of tension that starts happening where you're helping, but you're doing it differently, right? So kind of talking about that. How does, how do you then start leaning into that, you know? So as a couple, I mean, I think the part on the part of the default parent, you have to just go, they're going to do it different. They're a different person. They're going to do it different. And it's going to look messy. Right. Right. ⁓ And so there's this piece of going, okay,

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:52.438)
that's gonna be different and I wanna accept that they're not gonna do things just like me. ⁓ Now the piece that I know I have felt and I hear is also, okay, you hear that all the time as the default parent, especially moms. Dads are dads, they're gonna do it different, you need to just accept that. But then it's like, wow, I worked really hard to create this routine that's successful and all the pieces that are on my shoulders, I'm trying to maintain all these pieces.
And then I'm supposed to just accept the bowling ball that comes in and throws them all out. And so there's this coming together that needs to happen because as the default parent, you want to feel seen and heard and all the work you've done valued, not just something that you're supposed to throw aside because the non-default parent decided to show up. Well, because the non-default parent's like, I don't know what you And I'm just going to do. Yes. Yes. And the non-default parent kind of just steps in and just starts doing it differently.
This is the way I do it. And I've actually heard parents say that I'll do it my way. You do it your way. Yeah. And, it's like, but I hold most of that. And then I, you know, again, I'm going to get a little sidetracked here, but sometimes it's like, well, of course the mom is, but when the moment the dad shows up, everyone ⁓ is throwing confetti and cheering. He's here. He's helping. You should be happy with that. Yeah. Why are you complaining? And instead the mom, know, ⁓ you know, I'm going to be a little ⁓ mom, dad here, but, you're thinking.
okay, now I'm gonna have to make up for that by doing this and I'm gonna have to clean this up after that. Not just physically clean up, but I'm gonna have to repair what this routine disruption's gonna do. Like dad doesn't make me take a bath at seven o'clock. He said it was fine to do it at 7.15. But I know when I'm home alone, I need it at seven to get everything done, to get all three kids in bed at a certain time. And I think the way the tension, you're describing it really well, but it also looks like
Dad's then stepping in with the morning routine or the night routine and where you had felt pretty successful ⁓ on that routine working and it going peacefully and you'd worked really hard to create that. Then dad comes in, now one of the kids is screaming and not wanting to go to bed or dad's not reading the right book and now dad's getting mad yelling at the kid and then you're like, this sucks, I did not want any of this and I'm sure it's hard as the default parent not to be thinking.

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:11.544)
This is better when you're not around, right? And then it's hard for the ⁓ non-default parent to be thinking, man, I always mess it up. And not only, I've heard some people we're coaching say it this way, that even they would see it in their spouse's eyes. They're like, this is better when you're not here. know, they're like, this is what you do. Look what you did. Now our kid is screaming their head off. You caused that. ⁓ So I think it's important to know that it's going to be different. ⁓ It's going to be messy. ⁓ It's going to take time.
And as the couple, we've got to be intentional about how we think about and feel about the mess. You know, we've got to know, I think a big part for us was we knew the different, and I heard you say this to me, it's really helped me quite a bit. ⁓ The different ways we approach it is good. ⁓ We shouldn't approach it the exact same way. Like we want to have the same vision about where we're going, but how we get there is going to look different according to our own personalities and the way we do stuff. And so I really felt empowered that even when I looked like I was messing it up.
It was like, listen, I like that you do it different. ⁓ But I have some thoughts on it. ⁓ Maybe you could do this. And it was like, OK, if I just tweet to here, tweet it there, then you would be like, I might actually start doing some of that stuff you're doing, because I like those differences. And we get into the messiness we began to see was beautiful, rather than just ⁓ And I think there was that you did value the routines and things I had set up. I think that's
that was helpful to know that you could see my effort and what I was doing. And then if I could, and then when you allowed me to give you feedback, it was like, okay, you did it this way, but it's really helpful if you do it this way, you know? So it's like, that's fine that I don't care if you read two books or three books, but let's do books after we do, you know, brushing teeth or what, know, where it's like, you're coming together on allowing you to do it your own way. Yet you also honored
the systems I had set up. So it was this coming together of not expecting you to do it exactly like me, do it with your creativity, but inside of these lines that we agree upon, we see the value in, you're not just tossing out the whole program. Well, and seek to understand those. let's do that. want to, here's how, if you're wanting to change those dynamics, I want to start there where you're talking there, is the first thing is let's, as a couple, sit down and understand that routines exist for a reason.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:35.726)
So the routines that that default parent has put in place are there for a reason. And that's very important because then you're respecting the fact that they were built through trial, error, a real mental load, emotional labor and problem solving. They weren't just willy nilly thrown together, right? And so understand, I put a lot of time and energy into this and I want you to first be curious about the routine and respect that it's there. Even the places that aren't going well.
still respect the effort put into those because it also can feel like maybe some things are really smooth and it's like don't rock the boat. But some other things were really hard but it was also like but here's the whole backstory ⁓ to this moment that's still hard. Well that leads to number two when routines are ignored or just changed abruptly default parent can feel kind of erased you know like all the work they did was unimportant right and it's not about the that default parent having control
but about the time and effort and thought being valued and And you feel this anxiety and worry about it getting messed up. And that's a piece that I had to deal with that you have to deal with if you're the default parent and go, it's okay. If ⁓ things are a little bit switched up, that's gonna be okay. Yeah, so a very important step in that is, is for the couple to able to sit down, have a conversation about how ⁓ the solution to this ⁓ is us being able to both respect
the time that's been put in there, but also being flexible, right? That it doesn't have to be only this. This isn't the only way to do it. So I think it sounds like for me, for us, it was like, as the non-default parent, I had to come in and respect the work you've put into it. But then you had to be willing as the default parent to be flexible in saying, there's not only one way to see this, that the perspective you bring in is also valuable, and it could make this routine even better.
And I'd say in some, some areas too, you might actually be able to delegate and just say, okay, I'm going to hand this piece off to you. ⁓ know, ⁓ maybe it's ⁓ the nighttime routine or, ⁓ know, or when they get home from school or whatever it might be in your household, the morning routine is on you. You, you could either have days where you switch off or you could just say, you're the one in charge of breakfast. I'll be the one in charge of backpacks and things like that. So

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:49.406)
So just to toss out there's so much creativity you bring to this. You can do it together or you could just delegate different things. then however he gets breakfast done, he gets breakfast done. And however you do backpacks, you do well. in that sense, you're letting that the non default merit learn, learn that. Yeah, and have that creativity and have their own personality. Yeah, I'm almost thinking there probably were times I can't think of a specific example where I did try to change what you were doing because I'm like, I don't I'd rather do it this way. And then it just blew up in my face. And then I'm like,
maybe I should just go back to the way she was doing it, right? And I'm like, okay, now I can see why she was saying this was a good idea, right? But I'd love this point too, and this is point four, is kids ⁓ need both. They need both predictability, which like, you know, like the routine being predictable, because that helps them stay regulated, feel less anxious, but then they also need the parental differences, right? Because that...
builds adaptability and also connection with that non-default parent, right? And so it's beautiful for them to know that mom and dad don't just do it the exact same way, you know? Because they're not gonna do it the exact same way. Right, right. And being adaptable, sometimes life does throw us curveballs. ⁓ So in some ways, it's like when that other parent comes in and does it different, the child learns to adjust ⁓ and ⁓ to a situation being different, and that is a gift to them too. Yeah, very important. So now we wanna talk about like,
I know we've had many of these conversations that really helped us. I mean, I do remember being, this was such a ⁓ big deal early on when I was growing as a parent. And it was through those conversations that were intentional about these roles that we were doing ⁓ that really helped us come together as a team to where I don't see you as a default parent and I don't think you see me as a default parent, you know? That we both play an equal role in how we're growing and guiding these kids, right? Okay, so I...
Simple conversation kind of prompts to use right? I'm tell me how you feel about these ⁓ What feels heavy for you right now? Yeah, I like that question because ⁓ We would have very different answers to that, know, and so I just think it it Gives the default parent and the non default parent the place to say this is hard for me. ⁓ It's hard to feel insignificant or

Kyle And Sara Wester (21:3.850)
it's hard for me to carry the load of everything. ⁓ You know, and it, just opens that it's real open ⁓ for whatever ⁓ moment is difficult for each parent. ⁓ And then I love this one. Where do you feel unappreciated or invisible? You know, like I'm meeting when I, when I saw that question, I'm thinking, yeah, I would have a lot of answers back then. You know, I feel like the kids don't want me to put it in the bed. I feel like the kids get upset every time I jump in, I feel like you're mad at me. ⁓
All that kind of stuff, right? So think that would be a really good one for both people, ⁓ in whatever situation you're in, to have a lot to really open up and share about. ⁓ And the next one is, where do you want more leadership? ⁓ What does that mean? How does that hit you? Yeah. I mean, as the non-default parent, you kind of say, well, I would really love to be more involved in their homework or something. yeah, yeah, Whatever your passion or interest is. helping them with math or whatever. Yeah, yeah.
And then the other parent, the default parent, I'm trying to think like, would, ⁓ for me, that's leadership. I would think, I want you to see that I am leading this, you know, and be more intentional about how that's carved out and what I'm doing. And cause I know as, many default parents, I feel like you didn't see.
all the things I was holding and carrying. I was working full time and pregnant and taking care of a two year old. And just the pressure and weight of carrying all those things. And leadership, guess maybe that one's a little harder for me to think about. But what I'm thinking though, even in that moment I described with Abby, I probably would have judgmentally said, well, I want more leadership from you in that moment. I want you to tell Abby, no, dad's putting you to bed.
You know, and it's gonna be fine, Abby. I want you to help me succeed in that moment, right? Instead, it looked like you were there and you were ready to put her to bed to just like, ⁓ then you would be like, do you know what else was on my mind at that point? I was like, ⁓ I would want you to be- This is not the time to have that discussion. but then you could be like, I want you to be, show more leadership by not taking it personal, not letting a little four year old kid Yeah, actually letting me lead it. Yes. Trusting me that she's really tired. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (23:14.068)
This is not the time for you to come in and trust my leadership in that moment that we just need to get her to bed, me or you. But then that leads to what would help you feel more supported, right? So I think that leads into that. That's a fantastic question. And so the guidelines on that, you'd want to put some boundaries on that conversation, because this could get to be a really personal conversation, is that we agree to not be defensive. Like no one's being attacked. No one's pointing fingers and trying to accuse them of being a bad parent. ⁓ No one's keeping score over who's the better parent and who's doing a better job, right?
And then really the ⁓ main goal is aim to understand and not to fix, right? You're not trying to fix the problem. You're trying to better understand each other. And that's going to help you work together better towards helping your kids. And I'd say, you know, a lot of times families, even in our case, my job was more flexible. ⁓ You know, you were at a school ⁓ at that point that had solid hours. You couldn't just leave where I could work. I could go in a little later, work a little later. I had some flexibility.
that you didn't have, which also made me the default parent. So just thinking how, ⁓ okay, this is the situation we're in. ⁓ It's not like I'm good or bad or you're good or bad in those roles. It's how do we want to craft these roles intentionally instead of just letting the weeks go by in these roles. So it's okay to say, all right, I'm the default, you're not. ⁓ But...
let's shift something. Let's get some movement some places. The kids of course were going to be more used to being around me because I had the ability to be around them more. ⁓ You know, so it's just creating those moments and crafting it intentionally, which we kind of fumbled our way through a bit. ⁓ Well, I love this. So then you're talking about now after we've had that conversation, we move into the nitty gritty about the specifics, right? ⁓ And
Who wants to take ownership of what? Right? So there really might be things that are better for you to own and me to own. ⁓ That's not bad or good. It's just like you're saying the logistics of it, right? So you might sit down and say like, okay, I'm gonna own all the communication with school because it's easier for me to do that. And then I might say, I still want you to keep me informed on that. So I know what's happening, but yeah, if you could take care of those emails. And then I might say, hey, I'm home on, I get home early on these times. I really like to own bedtime on.

Kyle And Sara Wester (25:30.402)
this day and this day, right? And so let's just kind of invite the kids into that and that can be the new norm or I'm going to own. ⁓ mean, an example for me that you were off on the weekends and you owned a lot of the communication. Our kids got into soccer at a young age and you did a lot of that ⁓ because it worked with your schedule. It also worked with your joy. You you enjoy soccer too. ⁓ So that was a place you signed them up.
You talked to the coaches. often, not that you, I went sometimes too. I also took them to practice the night you were working, but a vast majority of it was your ownership. if there was questions that needed to be asked or you would typically just say, can you follow up with them about this? Or they said that and I would take care of that. Yeah. So it was a way of like, okay, I need to own the school stuff. Cause that works better with our us and our schedules. You can own the sports stuff. Cause that works with.
Yeah, again, ⁓ so the number one is kind of defining what what we're gonna own, right? Number two is allow some autonomy, like let each parent do things differently when appropriate, right? So even though we own those things doesn't mean they're like siloed. Yeah, lots of communication. Lots of Yeah. And so you want to be able to have that independent growth happen because you want like there to be some creativity and freedom. And once again, it's like though I may do it this way, you may come in and say, well, I thought about doing it this way. And that's beautiful for the kids, right?
Number three, I want to protect kind of the essential structure. I want to agree on what must stay the same. There are going to be some fundamental things, like how we do safety, ⁓ being on time to things, whatever those things are that we value. We still want to be on the same page about how we value those things and how we accomplish those things. ⁓ Because everything else can be flexible, but these things are really important. ⁓ So make your list. I mean, this would be something to intentionally sit down and go,
Okay, these things are really important. An example might be if our kids are riding their bikes, we're both in agreement that wearing helmets is important, right? ⁓ We're both in agreement. know you I did have some disagreement along the way about when we're in a store, how far away can our kids be from us? ⁓ And I was much more okay than being far away from me than you were. And that's just conflict we had to work through, you know? I was okay then going and doing some missions for me and finding certain items and you'd be like,

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:47.822)
how many aisles is that away from you? And I'd like, it was like five. And you're like, Kyle, they are six years, I don't want that many. So that was good for us to have different views on that, but for the kids to see us work through that. Then the kids could say, yeah, I kind of didn't feel safe that you were that far away. I kind of agree with mom on this. So that's an example of where we had to agree what is safe when we're running errands or when we're doing stuff. And then the last part of that would be we want to honor
both parents. We want to make sure that the default parent receives the recognition that they're doing all this work they're doing, but also the rest they need. But the non-default parents receiving some ability to take over some leadership and responsibility, right? That's the goal of having a they're important and they're valued. And so we want to make sure that's being conveyed. Yeah. So the big picture, what I love about this Sarah, it is so personal and so many
parents who come in will be trying to do parent coaching and it will lead to this discussion. And it almost looks like we're doing marriage coaching, right? ⁓ But it's important because of how the kids understand how a partnership works, right? Because they're someday going to have a partner or they're working all the time with friends and they're working. This is why school does a lot of group activities, right? So how does it work to not just do it my way, ⁓ but how to like work with somebody else, right? ⁓
They're seeing how to share responsibility. They're seeing how to respect differences and value those differences and not just see them as- It's a group activity. that's right. And they're also seeing this is super important. And this hits me as the non-default parent early on, that both parents are capable and both parents are important. Okay? That in the kid's mind, they might, especially at a young age, just believe that about the default parent, right? But really that both are essential.
to helping that kid, right? So you really want to be able to do that. ⁓ And the non-default parent has to believe that. Lots of times it's just building up the confidence. You are important, dude. You are necessary. Don't ⁓ just step out ⁓ and say, I'm not gonna do this. It's easier if I'm just not around, because that is a lie. You being there is important for those kids' development, ⁓ and it's gonna really help them understand how to do their future relationships in the future, right? So I wanna invite...

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:5.288)
All the couples, all the people, ⁓ the parents who, whether you're divorced or together and you're working with other co-parents, whatever, this is an important conversation to have. I wanna invite couples to notice first the patterns with compassion. So not with ⁓ judgment and criticism. I wanna encourage you to have the conversation this week ⁓ using this template that we've kinda set out, right?
Kind of like go back and listen and like, cool, I wanna have this conversation if this is happening over Christmas break or early on in the new year, it's a great way to start the new year, 2026. Sarah and I wanna strongly remind you, you guys are on the same team and your kids thrive when you thrive together. ⁓ Right? ⁓ Because nevertheless, if you're watching YouTube, we're not wanting to come with closed fists, but open hands so we can co-create the family we want together. And this is such an important part to co-create.
Right? Okay. So if that is something that you're challenged with or is going on in your family, I think most people it is, ⁓ would love to hear from you about how this works as you go through this and how those conversations go. ⁓ if you're looking for more help and you're wanting some more parent coaching on this and how to work together as a team to co-create the family you want, reach out to me at Kyle at Art of Raising Humans. ⁓ And I'm accepting new parents to start working on this throughout January. So we'd love to dive in this with you.
Today, I will get on a Zoom call. We'll talk about how I can help you and we'll start working together from there. So, I'm so glad that you joined us for this episode and hope it's very helpful to you in 2026. So, have a wonderful day.