Episode 186

Episode 186 Transcript:

How often does it happen in your home where a conflict arises, a kid is upset or sad or angry, and then your partner or spouse, they start to intervene and you just...
you're so overwhelmed or reactive to what they're doing. ⁓ Maybe they're raising their voice or maybe they're not intervening as fast as you would like. And then pretty soon you find yourself judging and criticizing your spouse. And then this little moment has now turned into this big moment between you and this person that ⁓ you love and are trying to raise your kids with together. Well, that today is our subject. We wanna talk about reactivity in your marriage or reactivity with.
your partner that you're in this process of raising your kids. could even be reactivity with your parents as they come in as grandparents. But ⁓ we want to show you kind of the steps that Sarah and I have intentionally done because we saw the reactivity causing division in our relationship. And that's not what our kids want. That's not what our kids intend. And they actually are very sad whenever that kind of stuff happens. So in today's episode, we are going to dive into that and give you clear
steps on how to slow that process down and turn those moments into moments of growth for you individually and for you as a couple. And so ⁓ if you haven't already, please take a moment to pause, rate, review, comment, ⁓ all that stuff really helps us be seen by more parents to get more help. ⁓ But I also want to point out if you're listening to this episode and you're like, man, I think my spouse and I need some help on that. I'd love for you to reach out to me at Kyle at art of raising humans.com and love to set something up to show you. ⁓
⁓ on a regular basis on how to use these moments of conflict as moments of intimacy instead of us constantly reacting, us actually able to slow these down and use them as moments where we draw closer together as a couple. Okay, so I hope you enjoy this episode.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.198)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans, I'm Kyle. Good morning, I'm Sarah. Is it morning time for them? I don't know. Well, it's morning for me, so I'm saying good morning. You're assuming. I always say hello. Oh, gotcha. Trying to switch it up. Sarah's trying to switch it up. That's great. OK. Yeah, so you know what? That's interesting, because it sounds like you kind of have a reaction.
to the way we typically do it and you're a little triggered by that a little triggered by the way we do it. ⁓ It's redundant. Well, everybody who's listening or watching on YouTube, you know, give us a thumbs up if you like Sarah's new intro with the good morning. ⁓ Even if you're listening to this at night, good morning to you. It's good morning somewhere right throughout the world. Okay. Well, you know, Sarah, we've been talking a lot amongst ourselves, but also with other couples.
⁓ about this kind of journey when you're trying to like raise these kids one of the things that really causes a lot of conflict in couples and they it's really a struggle was for us early on still can be at times with us. I don't know if it'll ever totally go away. Is this reactivity that we can have to each other you know and we've always been pretty specific about our goal and doing this podcast isn't just to give you ways to help your kid but it's really this bigger picture.
about the journey you're on as a human being, as you're parenting these people. Hence the art of raising humans includes ourselves. Yeah, and also you're doing it typically with someone else. I mean, I know there are some single parents, but even then those people I've talked to are triggered by how their mother or father are jumping into like... You're gonna have a teacher, a coach, somebody that you're kind of on this journey with to some degree. And there's these moments when parenting is happening lots of times.
it is conflictual to some extent. Maybe ⁓ the emotions are rising ⁓ and there can be a strong reaction ⁓ to the kid. And then many times there's this other side thing that the other parent has a strong reaction to that parent. Right. Yeah. So the kid does something and one parent is kind of bothered by that or triggered if you want to use that word. ⁓ But so then we have that dynamic of parent to child, but then the co-parent, the other one,

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:10.026)
is then not necessarily triggered by the child, but is triggered by the parent. Yeah. How they're handling this situation. Yeah. So if you're, as you're listening to this podcast, I'm sure you can relate to what we're talking about. Those moments where, ⁓ out of the blue, something occurs. ⁓ and then one of the parents maybe gets upset about that. And then, you know, you're feeling a reaction to their reaction. And then it becomes this like mess where
⁓ Maybe you're not even saying something in the moment, but you're thinking why are you doing that? Stop talking to them, you know? And then it causes this tension throughout the day and a blow up within your marriage ⁓ and so I just think many of us have been in those moments ⁓ and a lot I would say this one is really really common if you think about how often ⁓ One parent is watching the other parent going. ⁓ know and it it could be you're overreacting it could be just like a
you're letting this slide and it's gonna be problematic. We'll get more into that, yeah. And I'm thinking like, if we could define it real quick, I like this in our notes, we kind of define this how reactivity is when your nervous system feels unsafe and takes over before your brain can think. ⁓ And it's just like this immediate. ⁓
almost definitely subconscious. It's not something that you're doing. brain is very efficient and it's learned this pathway. It's learned that a leads to B leads to C and you're down that road before you all like, know, it's not, there's no intention to it. Well, I'd love to share our own personal journey in that to begin with, Sarah, just, I remember when the kids were very little and I wasn't, um, you know, a big part of what we're trying to do in this podcast is kind of raise parents awareness of this happening.
the more aware we are of it, the more it can slow down and I can intervene and do something and we'll get to that. ⁓ But I'm thinking early on before I had that awareness, ⁓ there's things that would pop up and you like maybe Abby or someone would be kind of their emotions would get big and they would start getting mad. ⁓ And in my upbringing, ⁓ mad was always met with mad. Like you did not let the kids mad.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:19.052)
Becomes, know like bigger than your mad, know So so pretty pretty much the mad when we were kids would be you know There'd be a lot of anger come back at that kid and then that kid would learn to back that off I was gonna say so why why was that important? Because I think every time a parent's doing something there's some important that like belief system there So why did the parent mad need to be bigger? Yeah. Well, I think in my mind it was so that way the kids ⁓ anger
wouldn't then take over the situation. I felt like the kid needed to know who was boss and who, there was boundaries to, you cannot talk to us this way or treat us this way. So I want to say like to me it sounds like for you that was how you created safety. The kid couldn't get bigger than the parent, the parent had to be the biggest in order to keep everything controlled. Yeah, yeah. And so when I would see you,
interacting with them, ⁓ you would probably describe it as you were trying to show the kid empathy, and you were trying to be calm with the kid and help the kid do all that stuff. To regulate, use my own calm to regulate. I would see that as weakness, and I would see that as you almost giving permission to them and saying, you can treat me this way. And then that would quickly spiral into now I've got to jump in and I've got to be a jerk and I've got to act in ways I don't want to.
because you are refusing to stand up for yourself and you're letting this kid yell at you or whatever I was imagining, right? And typically in my mind, ⁓ even as we talk about it in reflection, it was much bigger in my mind than I think it was in your mind. Like you didn't think it was that big. You thought, I can handle this. Yeah, I'm like, okay, so they're having a really big moment. I mean, so.
So just some context, I worked with little kids and little kids have big tantrums and you know, whether- You had a lot of experience with little kids, much more than I did. experience, right. So I was calm, going like, okay, you're really upset. You couldn't have another cookie. Life will go on, you'll be really upset. And I had a lot of experience and I was really deep into believing, okay, I'm gonna use my nerve, I'm gonna calm you down by being calm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:25.464)
myself, we'll get through this, you'll learn you can handle these big feelings. Well, as people hear you say that, ⁓ it does seem crazy in retrospect. Not only had you had years of experience working, know, babysitting little kids, working in churches, helping babies. That was my training. That's who I worked with. The age group for me was zero to six. Yeah, but you had a long history working at an agency with kids.
who were dysregulated had been abused, you'd help these parents. ⁓ still, ⁓ still I would see you and be like, you don't know what you're doing. Like you are completely screwing this up. Somebody needs to tell that kid, you ain't talking like that. You ain't doing that. That's such a good example of, mean, we're using our story and so everybody listening, you can imagine your own, but you you had this wiring. This was entrenching your brain like, and it wasn't, you were a bad person, right? It was.
I've got to keep safety in my family. I've got to maintain control or, ⁓ or this worst case scenario is going to happen. Right. And it was really hard to get from that space to, there's another way that we can still be safe, that we can still, you know, kids can learn the skills we need them to learn. Cause we both had the same end goal, great relationship with our kids, kids who know how to regulate their big emotions. Right. Yeah. And so how did you react to me though? I think about when I would do that and I would come in
You know, and be angry, be reactive. What was your reaction to me? Now I've got a second. ⁓ I've got to regulate with it. No, it was stressful because I'm in this moment trying to maintain my sense of calm. And then, ⁓ I don't know that I was always conscious, but I could see, okay, you feel, ⁓ mean, how you respond. I've had people in my own life growing up who did that. ⁓ They were bigger in order to maintain. So it was a familiar. I think.
For me, maybe that made it a little bit harder because that would trigger that in me. Okay, now we've got the big person coming in with these big emotions telling me I'm doing it wrong. ⁓ And so on one hand, I could step out of myself and go, this is what's happening. But then in the moment, it would also then, now I've got to manage this too. And there's a conflict here and a conflict here. Well, and I think your tendency would be.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:32.566)
to back off and with because I feel like if I didn't it was gonna make it worse and then typically that would actually confirm to me that you're being weak and not not doing something that's helpful because now you're like pulling back and now you look intimidated by me and the kid in my mind right and then I'm like great ⁓ like can we not both be parents here and stand up to this kid but I also know you would tell me in those moments so like I don't think both of us I mean I can see that you're being triggered
I think I need to back off because I don't think both of us should be getting triggered. Well, if we both escalate. That's it's not good for this three year old is four year old. This wasn't good. Yeah. Oh, to me. The option of me also escalating was not going to benefit the situation. though I didn't like this option, it seemed like the other option was worse. Yeah. So let's talk about, you know, there's this concept with reaction. So I'm sure we've kind of described this dance that would happen to us.
And in many ways we're more aware of that. And there are other types of reactions that happen, but that is a real common one that, that, that over the years that would pop in my mind, this idea that I needed to get bigger and louder and you would feel the need to kind of back away and try to keep the peace. that was kind of, then that obviously I'll probably allow people familiar with like good cop, bad cop thing, or you're going to be, you have to be this parent and I have to be this parent and those beliefs and roles of the heavy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So talk about,
When Dr. Dan Siegel, who hopefully soon at some point we will have on the podcast, which is going to be awesome, but Dr. Dan Siegel talks about this window of tolerance. Okay. So can you give a little bit, how does that concept help in moments like this? Okay. So I'm going to just like really oversimplify this. Okay. So you can add in some more if you want, but to me, the window of tolerance is that moment where you can feel yourself amping up. You can feel, maybe you can't even name the trigger. You just feel something like, no.
This is something in me. ⁓ and, and I want to highlight this because I think a lot of people are familiar with this, like, I'm mad. Right. But for me, the more familiar thing is, I need to run away. ⁓ it's that spot in you where you want to fight, you want to run, ⁓ you want to just, ⁓ or fawn, you know, just like, okay, whatever you want. That's kind of my, you know, from childhood, it's like, okay, fine. I'll do what you want. You know, that's what I would get with you. And, ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (10:55.190)
And so it's that moment where you're still kind of present and aware of that. And then when you hit past that moments of tolerance, it's like you're down the road. ⁓ Yeah. It's happened. So that tolerance is where we're hoping to kind of catch ourselves and be able to move into some regulation. Okay. So the window of tolerance is tolerated. It's that moment where I can be aware, slow it down.
do something different. can realize something is starting here, but before it heads down the road, I can still do something about it. Okay. And then Bruce Perry, talks about how stress responses are learned through early relationships and our reactions often mirror what was once helped helped us feel safe. And that's kind of what you talked about with me, that my reaction was getting bigger helped me feel safe. And so that's why in this moment, I don't feel safe when my kid is doing this. And so I need to do it where
Whereas you weren't feeling that reaction because that's not necessarily something you felt, you didn't feel unsafe in that moment. And in my mind, I thought, how could you not feel unsafe? Because in my mind, in my home sometimes it would get loud and it would be unsafe when we were all yelling. ⁓ And so then somebody needed to step in and threaten ⁓ some kind of punishment to then stop that from escalating. So it's like highlighting the fact that you and I had different responses. I didn't feel unsafe.
for whatever happened in my childhood and how I was in that moment. You felt unsafe in that moment. So two people can feel differently. And then you respond and you come out of that space of how your brain was wired when you were little. So you're coming from that response. So we have a lot of things kind of going on in this one little moment with a three year old. Yeah. So what I want to spotlight here ⁓ to all our listeners, Sarah, is ⁓ this is, I think, what's been so powerful in the way we approach parenting for us ⁓ is,
our little kids have brought this stuff out, you know, in good ways and bad ways, meaning like, ⁓ if it was just you and I and we had no kids, ⁓ I would definitely probably not have dealt with these things or these kinds of reactions, you know, because I wouldn't be put in these situations ⁓ that mirrored these things when I was a child, right? So that's, I want for everyone who, as you're raising your kids, this is where there's such a blessing that they allow us to face these things, not only as individuals, but as couples.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:11.746)
because then you have seen and ⁓ me vice versa, we've seen the worst come out at times, but they also then we are able to face it and work through it. And then that can bring something better out, right? ⁓ If we're both as a couple, willing to do that. Yeah, ⁓ it's opportunity. So that's where we want to take it from there. So now we've kind of framed that. Everybody can kind of picture that. is your dance with your spouse? How does that reaction stuff happen with And be aware of your own triggers. ⁓
where do I get triggered? And you and I get triggered very, very differently. So I think that's kind of interesting. ⁓ so then that, the goal here is raising your awareness to slow the moment down. And so the first step that would be important to do is how to start, how do you start spotting this early? Like you said, in that window of tolerance when you can actually do it. And so one of those ways is just being more conscious ⁓ of how your body's reacting to the moment. Like for me, my voice getting louder, my muscles feeling tighter, you know, definitely just a tightness overall.
my heart is beating faster, I'm definitely feeling hot. I'll start feeling more flush in my face. What's some things that you would feel? Kind of the opposite. It's like I want to shut everything down. So more is like I want to leave this situation, I want to shut it down. I talk less. I quiet down because I'm trying to avoid the situation or be safe in the situation by just acquiescing.
So it can feel a lot of different ways and that awareness is really important. know sometimes it's frustrating because it's like, after the fact, I can look back and see it, but that didn't help me in that moment. But the more we do that, the more we look back, review tape, which is what you reference all the time in coaching and sports, you watch the film. The more we do that, the more our brain starts to shift and we start to recognize it earlier and earlier. And it is, it's work. I'm not gonna act like it's not work.
We have to review the tape a lot. You go back and look at it, but then my brain starts to notice it sooner and I'm able to do something about it sooner. So that awareness already shifts your brain. The moment you become aware, your prefrontal cortex starts to respond differently. Things start changing in your brain. Well, even success, I know this may sound weird, but Sarah, parents I'm coaching, I say this a lot to them, that my first step of success wasn't necessarily that I...

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:30.799)
didn't react to the moment like I had in the past. It was like I almost had like an out of body experience where as I reacted, I almost had this other part of me that said, what are you doing? How come you're getting so mad about this? And it was almost like one voice was saying, you got to do something about this right now. I cannot believe Sarah's doing that. And then it was like, I don't think Sarah's actually doing anything. So then later on I was like, that was interesting.
So that was like the first step to me going, now I can see myself do it. ⁓ Okay, next time maybe I can like start that process sooner. ⁓ And so ⁓ there are some things that you can start ⁓ today, start noticing, just being more aware of your body and kind of what those first signals are. What are the first signals that start to arise when you start to react? And then you can, I think we've done this pretty well. ⁓ Not that we've always been successful, but having some language of saying something like, hey, I'm starting to feel really charged.
I'm starting to get really upset about this. ⁓ Can we pause? Because I'm getting really reactive right now. And so having some kind of dialogue or being prepared in advance as a couple to be able to like pause it, back out, know that in this moment I'm just reacting to my own childhood and I need to get in better space. And we've had moments like that where we call it like kind of tag teaming. where it's like, ⁓ I'm starting to feel that trigger. I'm going to jump out before it gets going down that road, you know?
And sometimes we miss it, but you know. And I would say this, this next step, so after we do that, ⁓ the next step that you have done really well, Sarah, and has really been helpful in my life, is you, you more quickly than me would be able to shift from a defensive place to a place of curiosity. And you would start being curious. And even sometimes that looked like, many times early on, ⁓ I would react to a moment, and even I remember one time where I was reacting to the kids.
I was raising my voice. I came back into the living room. You were there. I remember in the living room folding some laundry and you said, you do realize that this isn't what we teach our kids, right? I mean, teach other parents. And I said, oh, I know that, but this is happening. And I just knew I couldn't seem to stop. My anger was like, but in that moment I was like, the way you said it, it wasn't judgmental. It wasn't critical. It was like, hey, I know the dad you want to be and I know right now you're not.

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:49.815)
and I knew I could come back later and you were gonna be able to help me see it differently. And so I think that ability ⁓ as your own self or with each other to shift from being defensive and attacking to instead being curious and so you would say something like, this moment seems really big for you, can you tell me what's going on inside? ⁓ And that would help me stop and reflect and like, why is this so big for me? ⁓ Why am I making this such a big deal? ⁓
Yeah, it's that pulling it apart and if one person can stay present in the moment to help. Well, it's almost like I feel like you would ground me ⁓ and you would do something that Dr. Gottman talks about. It wasn't like you were trying to agree with my perspective, but you were trying to attune with it and you were trying to help me name it so then I could do something about it. Like if I could name it, then I can tame it ⁓ and I can get control of myself and then teach my kids.
how to do this differently, you know? Yeah, it starts to pull the power out of it. You know, you feel that energy amping up at the moment, you can name it, you can start to feel that, you know, kind of sinking back down and relaxing. Well, and I definitely know I'm not in a good place when ⁓ my thought process is to somehow fix you or change you, you know? ⁓ And instead, what I felt from you on these occasions when we did this helpful, ⁓ you were being really helpful and really helped me shift, is I didn't feel like you thought something was wrong with me. You instead just thought, Kyle just needs some help regulating.
his big emotions right now. And then I could feel like you were partnering with me and helping me be the dad I wanted to be. Yeah, it's kind of that, I think it's in there, but where we co-regulate with our kids, but we can actually co-regulate with each other. We can co-regulate with anyone, you know? So if you can be in that place, you can help each other co-regulate. You've done that with me too. Some of our tag teaming is like a deep breath. It's kind of like coming in going to...
Okay, high five. You got it. I'm stepping out for a minute and it's just helping each other. ⁓ You know, that moment to regulate and, I remember early on what you asked me to do when I was getting mad about you looking weak or whatever. You were telling me like, Kyle, just let me do this with her. Like I can do it. I said, well, what do want me to do? I would ask you to go sit on the couch and just think positive thoughts about me. You know, just, just think, just send me your positive vibes or, ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:12.622)
pray for me or whatever you can do just. Or you could ask me like, hey, are you okay? Yeah, yeah. And then just like trust that I can learn this, you know? And that that was actually Well, and I done it with other kids. And then that's what I noticed. Once I sat down and I was no longer reacting, I could hear what you were doing and I was like, that was actually really good. Oh my gosh, like she's now, Abby's now crying and they're hugging and they're working through it. like, okay, like maybe I wouldn't have phrased it that way or done it this way.
but it's really effective what she's doing there and it's staying true to what we said we wanted to do as parents. So then actually like two or three times of doing that, then I started getting really curious, like what is she doing that I could do differently or how is she saying that? And that's when I really started to see the power of us working together to help each other. Instead of me coming in criticizing and judging you, I instead was like believing that even the goal isn't here to do it perfect or do it right every time ⁓ or do it the same even. It is for us to come to an understanding and a vision of what does it look like to
co-regulate with our kids, we first have to do that with each other and then invite our kids to do it with us. And to really simplify that process is kind of like connecting with the emotion and then moving into the logic, you know, and if you know much about Siegel's work, I think that's in there too, but Siegel's work is, it's a really big thing and that's, in fact, that's what I was doing with Ab, you know, with our child, with Abby, was like, okay, let me tap into this emotion with you. I'm here with you. I can help you calm.
⁓ and we'll circle back around to logic so that we're getting the whole brain integrated, working together, and we still need that as adults. When I'm in a really emotional, tough space, I need to tap into that, ⁓ give myself compassion for that, move into then the logic side and bring it all full circle. Well, let's hit that, because I think that was one of the biggest routines we got into that helped me, was watching the game film with you.
⁓ And not I feel like you were just talking about ⁓ is that process if we would do the emotion we would do the logic when we got really good at that like Yeah, cool. And and then what it did and this is what I hope all the people listening understand this ⁓ then the conflicts with the kids instead of them triggering us causing us to turn against each other and then making our marriage like ⁓ even more conflictual or more toxic instead than those times with the kids

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:30.350)
cause us to turn towards each other and reflect on it, watch the game film together. And then I would see how you saw that situation completely different that you weren't triggered in, ⁓ or I saw it completely different in the way, because I wasn't triggered by it. Like maybe- It takes the energy out of it, because sometimes when I hear you not be triggered, I think, ⁓ okay, maybe that wasn't.
you know, and it would help me. I appreciated this other perspective. Even some of his friends will do that. You know, you're stressing about something with a kid and then they say, they say, oh yeah, blah, blah. They share something and it just, oh, okay. Deep breath. This is okay. You know, it's not the big tragedy that it is in my head. And then as we did that more and more, then I almost was like, when I was getting triggered, like where's Sarah? I hope Sarah will help me. of it being like, I know in a lot of couples, it's like when that other person's there.
Like literally guys, when it comes to the science of interpersonal neurobiology, and hopefully whenever Siegel gets on, he'll talk more deeply about this. ⁓ with the, it's like, when I start to judge you and get mad, ⁓ I'm literally making it a lot harder for you to be at your best and to be the parent that I know you want to be and that I want you to be. Because actually my judgment and criticism is you're gonna feel it. Yeah, that's where I felt like now I have to deal with two things and I was trying to deal with my job.
Yeah, so as we got into the habit of watching the film together, believing that we were on the same page towards a similar vision, then we trusted each other to where even if we were getting triggered, we could be open and receptive to the other person's help in that moment, you know? And this is something we still do. This is an ongoing process, practice that we do. And so I like how, you know, when we were kind of coming up with ideas for this episode, we were talking about things not to say, like things that definitely...
don't help in these moments and then things to say that could help. if you and your spouse or one, ⁓ you gotta have some idea about. like go tos. Because in the moment it's hard to just, let me think of what, you you wanna have some go tos that work for you. So here's some ideas, but ⁓ have your list of two or three things that really help you guys. Yeah, and just be aware. Like that doesn't help me or that does. And so these three that we wrote down, you're making a big deal out of nothing. I mean, that's always going to cause somebody to feel defensive.

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:45.268)
and then get more triggered. You always do this. ⁓ know that word always man because immediately the other person's brain thinks of all the exceptions. Yes. So that's not a good place to go. It's immediate conflict of you said always not got prove you wrong and you know ⁓ something along the lines like I'm fine. You're the one freaking out. You know this whole once again it's
Judging you separating from you. You're the problem. I'm killing it over here, right? So instead maybe trying something like this. Hey, we're both we're both activated right now. We're both triggered right now. Let's let's just take a breath. ⁓ Okay, or I love you. This feels hard, but I'm with you. ⁓ and ⁓ I really like that ones were so pitted against each other and these are like, hey, we're together in this. So let's come back to this when we can hear each other again.
You know, I like that. Let's just take a break. Let's pause. I mean, all the research shows that when we're getting triggered, if we just take about 20 minutes apart, that's what it typically takes for your body physiologically to relax and get back to a better space to where you can see the situation differently because you're in your pre make sure you have that plan ahead of time because otherwise that one, ⁓ can be a problem if one person's like, what do you mean take a break? You you need to have that figured out ahead of time. Like anyone can call for a break at any moment. And that's, that's beneficial to us. We're in agreement. We want to do that.
Yeah, and so we've kind of hit upon when these things don't go well, which they won't still at times it doesn't so at times I'm caught up getting triggered you are we turn against each other right is you got to be really intentional about the repair about coming back and and really ⁓ using you know We've talked about this in other podcasts using that conflict as an opportunity for intimacy for us to come back and better understand each other because the more I mean, yeah, the the more you're you're married to somebody and
and you're with your kids and you're having these moments, the more opportunities you have to like, ⁓ for it to be a revealing process for you as an individual, ⁓ what your story is that's kind of driving you in these moments, but also it helps your spouse better understand you. And so when I hear, you got triggered because of X, Y, and Z and that happened in your child, okay, that's interesting. I could see why you'd see it that way, you know? And so then it brings us together to where that net situation is less likely to blow up.

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:3.840)
Because we've done the repair, there isn't all this baggage of you never listen to me or you always do this. It's like, yeah, each time that happens, we're gonna come back, ⁓ come close together, talk about it, understand each other, and that's gonna help us co-create something different. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then, ⁓ one other aspect of this that's really important, Sarah, ⁓ is we want to be able to model to our kids too how to handle when they are feeling reactive. ⁓ Kids don't...
the kids don't actually need parents who never fight. know, like I do see a lot of kids ⁓ at the private practice where they've never seen their parents fight. ⁓ And so they don't really know how to resolve conflict. They don't know what to do. And so, but they actually do need to see their parents ⁓ repair after a fight. Yeah. Cause it's not just, yeah, we want our, we fight in front of our kids. That's fine. No, it is the.
teaching them the full circle. So you need to be intentional about it. If you're going to have a disagreement around your kids, you need to make sure that you bring that full circle of, mean, one, keep it healthy. We're talking about like helpful situations here, safe situations. ⁓ And that full conflict resolution happens. That full repair happens. Cause then you're actually modeling a skill to them that when they have conflict with people, they can be safe in that conflict. They can.
listen to each other, that conflict, know how to have conflict, they know how to repair so that they can do that and all kinds of relationships in their adult life. And you're just setting them up for healthier marriages and friendships. mean, there's been so many times where I'm just speaking for myself that I have blown up and then later on we've come together as a family and I've just like say, here's what happened. Like here's how come I blew up. The story I was believing in that moment was this. ⁓ And I believe that story because that happened a lot in my childhood.
That happened a lot in other environments. And so I felt like I needed to react this way. And I know I don't, but that's why I did. ⁓ And just revealing that helps the kids know the goal here isn't for them to be perfect kids. The goal is like, we're going to mess up. And at times, we're going to rub up against each other, and that's going to cause friction. And so they need to know that conflict doesn't mean disconnection. And that's all too often what happens is conflict produces isolation. We push away from each other. ⁓ That we want them to know conflict

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:22.868)
isn't about disconnection. Conflict is just about two different people who see things different ways. And you can have that rupture and you can have the repair. ⁓ So see, we want to stay connected through the re staying connected through reactivity teaches kids emotional safety and teamwork. So ⁓ we want to keep that. We don't want, we want to keep that as a focus that even though we disagree, even though we see, we don't have to push each other away. We don't have to reject each other. ⁓ And, and really what you're eventually doing, showing the kids how to handle
big feelings in relationships, not by being perfect, but by intentionally coming back together and believing you can handle that. ⁓ So, hope this was really helpful to ⁓ all of you listening, because I know these things are so common in everybody's parenting journey. And so, we hope you just keep this in mind, that staying united doesn't mean staying calm all the time, but it does mean staying connected.
that even in the chaos, even when you are feeling ⁓ reactive to a situation, you can still stay connected. So it'd be great for you to notice this week, whenever you or your partner are feeling stressed, you're getting triggered, something in you, ⁓ that you can pause and you can see the pattern instead of just reacting to it. And we definitely, if this information helped you and you ⁓ also see that other couples you know are struggling with this, share this episode with them. Please send it their way because...
We just want them to know there is a path to where this parenting journey can make your marriage actually sweeter and stronger, but it takes real intentional work to do that. ⁓ And in this busy world with everything, it's hard sometimes to be intentional about that. But it's so rewarding ⁓ being on this for a while now. ⁓ It's worth the work. Yeah. And also we're excited to see.
how it equips our kids to have even better marriages or better friendships than we had growing up because they have more tools and they've seen it where, yeah, you can disagree and you can still be friends and still hang out, still talk to each other. Yeah, Chris's whole kind of legacy for us. Yes, yeah. So we thank you so much for listening. I hope, we hope your fall is going well and continue to check in on YouTube and on any podcast platform you listen to because we are gonna continue bringing on some fabulous people but also sharing information just like this.

Kyle And Sara Wester (31:41.878)
and we're excited to have you on this journey with us. Have a great day.