Episode 35

[Kyle]: In today's podcast we're going to talk about legacy. What is the legacy you want to leave your kids? Are you leaving the legacy you want to leave your kids? Have you even thought about it? Do you have to leave the same legacy that was left to you or can you improve upon it? So, we're going to give you some specific steps that we have used to help change the legacy and build upon the good that was given to us. 

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[Kyle]: Hello and welcome to episode 35 of The Art of Raising Humans. I’m Kyle.

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[Sara]: And I’m Sara.

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[Kyle]: And today we want to talk to you about your legacy, what is the legacy that you're wanting to leave for your kids. You know, one of the things that Sara and I, you know, you and I were both inspired to do when we first wanted to start a private practice, was we had to get a name and we thought long and hard about that name and what it was going to be and we stumbled upon the name “Parenting Legacy” and that was something we were really passionate about at the time and still are, because I think most of what we're trying to do with parents and with ourselves is to change that legacy. I think that’s the hope of every human, isn't it? To leave a better legacy for their kids?

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[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think some people don't always maybe really think about that in a conscious level. You know, they may be thinking “I want the legacy of being a great musician” or “I want the legacy of being, you know, some inventor”, you know, people's legacy. But I think inside of us as parents, there's at least brief moments where we think “what do I want to leave to my children? How do I want to turn this ship of how things are going? How things were for my childhood with my parents, my family myself and, what do I want to pass on and leave to them?”

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[Kyle]: Yeah. I think everybody somehow it just seems to be a driver of-- Almost every kid that I speak with, Sara or even like, you know, every parent, that they do want to seem to make things better, you know? They somehow they can see some things and they may love a lot about their childhood, but they're like “I don't know why mom and dad still do this” or “I wish they wouldn't do that” and so, a lot of that I remember clearly thinking that in childhood of like “why is dad doing that or why is mom doing that? If I was the parent, I think I would probably do that, that might be more effective” and I think that's kind of the start of it and I think it comes from a place of I think, our own parents would like to do it better, you know? I think there's a desire in every one of our own parents, that they wish they could go back and do things better, right? And I think to some extent that's what we're living out as parents is, we're trying to take what was given to us and build upon it.

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[Sara]: Yeah, I think it's almost-- Sometimes I almost feel like it's more clear when you're younger and you're seeing it and you're thinking “oh, I’m not going to do that” and then when you get older, you find that you slip into some of those patterns because it's kind of the only thing you know and maybe you even think “I want to change this, I want to do something different, but I don't know how to do it” and that's where sometimes we just get stuck.

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[Kyle]: Yeah. So, I think a lot of people immediately think of a few legacies that, you know, kind of like you were saying, I think there are some they don't see, but some they quickly see and they're like “I definitely want to pass those legacies on or get a better legacy”. So, some—

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[Sara]: Traditions.

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[Kyle]: Yes. Oh, yes, sure.

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[Sara]: I know this-- The way we did Christmas was, I mean, even and that's actually-- I say that one probably because it's true for me, my mom was phenomenal making a very magical Christmas and that's something I want to pass on to my children, I very intentionally try to pass on to my children.

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[Kyle]: I think both of us love the outdoors and we want to pass on a legacy of our kids not only enjoying the outdoors, but just being familiar with it, not being scared of it, you know? Finding adventure in the outdoors. So, lo and behold, we've intentionally gone camping a lot, we have tents, we have all this stuff and the kids are in scouts and they want to go camping. So, somehow inadvertently, some intentionally, some just like “wow, look what's happening”, you know? We're passing these things on to the kids, but I’m also thinking of like education was important to you and I. So, I know for both of our parents, you know, they wanted us to go to college, they wanted us to get a degree and then you and I went on and got our master's degrees and I think we would want a similar thing for our own kids.

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[Sara]: Yeah, yeah, there's-- When you say the word “legacy” it definitely-- When you break, there can be all kinds of legacies that you leave to your children. I’m sure people are very intentional about some financial legacies and some food legacies and traditions.

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[Sara]: You know, there's a lot that we-- Probably those fun ones, those are the easier ones, right? I mean, “oh, that was so great! I loved how I do that!”

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[Kyle]: No, I totally agree, Sara, and I think there are those kinds of legacies. Ones that I’m thinking in particular before we get into the relationship one is, the legacy of food for instance, you know? I don't know-- I mean, I know somewhat how you grew up with food, but I know in our family we always had two liters of pop in the fridge. Not only one two-liter pop, but multiple two-liters of pop. So, pop was something you were having all the time, I mean, it was like, you know, definitely for lunch, definitely for dinner, maybe for breakfast if mom and dad, you know. I mean, you just had—Every time you went to a friend's house there was pop, pop was so cheap and it was so easy to have, right? But now we know more, right? We know more “pop ain't good for you”, you know? It doesn't mean it's bad, it still tastes good, but we don't have pop in our fridge, right? I mean, and that's an intentional choice, the kids think pop is dessert, right? I mean—

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[Sara]: Yeah, special occasions

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[Kyle]: That's right, they're like “oh, can we have another glass of that this weekend?” and it's like “it's only for parties or it's for like, you know, special football game. We'll get some root beer” or something like that. So, that's an example there of where we have been really intentional to say “oh, that's how we used to eat. Let's eat differently” or even like there was a time where we were eating-- I’m sure listeners can follow this, but toaster strudel was a real common breakfast, pop-tarts was a lot of breakfast and not to say that our kids never have that, but that was like an everyday breakfast before I went to school, just popping a lot of this kind of sweet stuff. I remember, Sara, we used to have-- I’d come home from school and have sugar bread. You know, where I took a piece of white bread and pour sugar over it and then like—Okay, so our kids would never have that, but like a lot of that was because my parents were working and I was left to my own devices. I came home, I was hungry and sugar bread was awesome, okay? So, that's an example of changing our legacy by just the kind of snacks we have in our house, the kind of drinks we have available that our kids are just going to grow up seeing that kind of stuff a little different, okay?

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[Kyle]: And so, moving into the relationship one, I mean, along that lines too is just even the financial. I think a lot of, you know, listeners are purposely trying to make the financial situation better. I know your you and I both our parents had a tough relationship with money sometimes, you know? It was really hard, I went three years, three summers without air conditioning, you know? There was times where your family had to move around quite a bit, you know, because the finances and that's something we intentionally by getting our education, wanted to pass on something different to our kids.

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[Kyle]: And so, with the relationship component, kind of tell me some thoughts there. What's--? I know we're using relationship; we'll delve into many more other types of aspects of that, but what do you think in there like, what's the relationship legacy you wanted to pass on?

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[Sara]: Well, right off the top I think, how do I want my child to relate to me and how do I relate to them? That's what a relationship is, right? So, how do we speak to each other? How do we connect? How do we handle conflict? How do we hold things special and care for each other? So, when I say a relationship legacy, that's what I’m referring to.

[Kyle]: Yeah, I’m even thinking of sibling relationship legacy too.

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[Kyle]: So, there I’m thinking of this moment and I’ve shared this sometimes with clients, this moment where I took Brennan to Panera to get some food and I got a free cookie and I didn't want the cookie, so I gave it to Brennan and Brennan asked for a knife and said he wanted me to cut it in half and I said “why?” and he said “because I want to give the other half to Abby” and I was thinking “oh my goodness! What are we doing here!? I never would have thought to do that! I would have eaten the whole cookie and then maybe even left a piece to rub it in my brother’s and sister’s face that I got a cookie and he didn't get a cookie”, but Brennan was and then even after I cut it, it wasn't-- I noticed it wasn't even and Brennan said “I’m gonna eat the smaller part, I want to give the bigger part to my sister” and I was like “oh my goodness! This is working!”. Like this is so awesome because that's a different way of seeing the sibling relationship, that he wasn't seeing his competition, he was seeing it as like “oh, I have something, I would love to share that with my sisters”, that's another beautiful relationship there.

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[Sara]: Yeah, relationship can mean a lot of different things, because then it's also what's their relationship to themselves, what's their self-talk like, how do they do they believe. You know, that sort of in gut instinct inside of them. Do they look outside for “what should I do now in this part of my life?” or “what should I--?”. They have that inside of themselves, a healthy relationship with themselves. Also, you said siblings, but even relationship to friends and people outside of the family, what are those relationships boundaries?

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[Sara]: How do I set boundaries with people? How do I form connection with friends and what do friendships look like?

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[Kyle]: How do I resolve conflict when I have conflict with friends or my parents or my siblings? Right? That's another kind of--

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[Sara]: Yeah, eventually co-workers goes-- So, you want to build that-- So, we're thinking “how do we build this legacy now? What legacy do I want to be building now? Is for my children to then go off into this world”.

[Kyle]: Yeah, I’m even thinking about, you said the relationship with yourself, so I know you kind of hit up on this, but some of the self-talk, how do I talk to myself? How do I treat myself? You know, because some of us, I know I like sports and so do you and a lot of times you'll hear these people talk about them beating themselves up to become better athletes, you know? And it seems like that's got to be the legacy, that in order to be a better athlete you have to like, really hate yourself until you perform well and I would just think that's not a legacy I want to leave my kids, you know? I remember actually feeling that, Sara. I guess as we're thinking about this, it makes me think of when Abby was playing soccer when she was maybe like, five or six and I would go to her games and I found myself getting really upset, I found myself yelling and I was becoming one of those parents who like I did not want to be and I’m like “Abby! Focus!” and I’m just screaming at her and the whole time I’m thinking it's so helpful. Even though Abby would tell me it's not helpful and she doesn't like it. Even her own coach would say “hey, ignore your dad, just focus on the game”. Even I’d still be like “no! she needs me to say this!”, you know?

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[Kyle]: And then as I really thought about it really, really more deeply, I thought that one of the things that I didn't like about soccer, because I played it as a kid. My dad was my coach and my dad did a lot of great things as my coach, but there were moments that stuck out of my mind where he'd be really disappointed in me as a player and something was like “oh, that's how it has to be”. But I didn't like that when my dad did that and then now, I’m getting mad at Abby for making me be just like him, which is a really weird thing. But that that was like such a smack in my face of like, the legacy, that I’m basically repeating the same moment probably at the exact same age, which is kind of freaky that I’m doing the same thing to my daughter and sending the message “stop making me do this, I don't like this. You're making me act like my dad did at this age”.

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[Kyle]: It makes me think of this quote, Sara, where-- The quote that we saw recently said “inside every parent triggered by their child's behavior is a child who wasn't safe when they behaved in that same way”.

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[Sara]: I think you need to read that again.

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[Kyle]: Okay. “Inside every parent triggered by their child's behavior is a child who wasn't safe when they behaved in that same way” and when I saw that quote, it just really resonated with what I already knew in me, that was true, that that's what I was doing to Abby and then it even happened with Brennan. When Brennan was playing soccer, I mean, there was times if you remember, Sara, Brennan, he was a little different. Where Abby could just kind of ignore me and keep playing like, she just-- She would hear me, but Brennan would like, really care what I had to say. So, when I was trying to correct what he's doing in soccer, he would turn and look at me and then be like “what? What are you saying, dad?” and I go “stop looking at me stop! Stop being distracted at me!” and so, there's times where I would have to physically walk away from the field because I couldn't seem to stop it.

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[Sara]: You were triggered.

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[Kyle]: It was so triggering and I couldn't even imagine a different way of doing it, it was almost like I had to leave the soccer field just to get back to a better place, you know? And so, that's another example of like, a relationship and a legacy that I had with the soccer field, that I had with sports, you know? And there really seemed to be no freedom or no ability to change it, you know? I felt trapped by it.

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[Sara]: Yeah, I think a real common one, I’m sure we want to get into the next piece here, but I think a real common one that I see show up is shame and guilt.

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[Sara]: You know, that when you're talking about that self-talk of “I get motivated by feeling really bad about what I did. I’m feeling a lot of shame about what happened and now I’m going to go be better” and we often pass that legacy onto our children of “you should feel really bad now, now you're going to go be better” and those are I think, great examples of how we relate to ourselves and how we relate to our children and how we were as children ourselves and going back to those moments, you taking that time to go back to “oh, is this what happened when I was a child?” and we need to sometimes revisit our childhood and own what did it look like and the great things too, the really wonderful magical Christmases, as well as other moments that were “oh, this is what happened” and notice it.

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[Kyle]: Yeah. Well, I want to add that, as we move into “how do we shift that?”, right? How do we shift the legacy, you're kind of touching upon that is, I would love the listeners to be thinking about what it is, what legacy they would like to shift or like, they'd like to add or ones they already are doing intentionally really well. I mean, I think the key word in this is you got to be intentional, you've got to decide what it is you're wanting to leave behind and then decide how you do that: we'll get there. But I’m thinking, I know we're saying relationship, I was also thinking even just emotional intelligence, you know, the ability to know feelings, know what they're there for, see them in others, be empathetic, right?

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[Sara]: Yeah, that’s a big one.

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[Kyle]: Care how they feel and then the ability to regulate my feelings. I mean, I don't ever remember that being taught to me. It was never taught, it was basically like “stop being so mad!” or “go to your room and calm down”, you know? Maybe those were given, but typically big emotions were not received well unless there are positive ones. So, any negative emotions were typically not received well, they feel really uncomfortable in you and then the adult would just want them to go away and you learned, the legacy typically was “don't show those to the adults, the adults will just get upset about those”, you know? So, even like I think that's a real key legacy in the relationship, is understanding what your feelings are there for and how to get help to regulate those feelings, you know? So, the feelings don't dominate you and overwhelm you, but instead help inform you and guide you, you know? So, that's a big one.

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[Kyle]: So, how would you say we start to do that? How would you say we start to change the legacies in our families?

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[Sara]: Yeah, back when I kind of jumped ahead a little bit. I think you start by looking at your childhood. I mean, for—Okay, first you want to know where you're going, right? You're going to think “I know this is a legacy that I want to leave my children, I want them to have whatever it might be”, even if it's finance and then you go back and you need to see because if there's a part of you, you need to go back and see what happened in your own childhood, because if we just don't, we try to leave that story out, right? We don't want to-- It's hard to look at, so we don't want to pay attention to it, but it's still there, it's still there and it still impacts us. So, we will just be fighting against ourselves.

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[Sara]: So, we want to in some ways, it's almost like go make peace with it, go back and see “what happened back there? What parts did I like? What parts would I want to change?”

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[Sara]: And so, I’m just going to put a little piece in here, if someone had a very, very traumatic childhood, you want to do this maybe in counseling, you're going to want to do this with some support. So, don't try-- So, I’m just going to say that real quick because this is just for information purposes, but if you've got a lot there, make sure you get support and help to do that. But you want to see, you want to go back and say “oh, you know what? I didn't really like how that happened in my childhood” and just hold it there.

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[Kyle]: Yeah. Well, and I like that going back to the metaphor we've used before, I like using the open-handed closed-fisted metaphor that, if I’m holding that legacy really tight, it's going to be really hard to change it. But what you're suggesting is through the acceptance of the legacy, it's been given I can hold it loosely and I can look at it and then do some kind of activity such as “let's write down the things that were passed on to me that I think are fantastic”, you know? Because really in all honesty, I really do believe all of our parents were doing the best they could with what they had, you know? I’ve had many conversations with my own mom and dad about their parenting and they would say “man, if we knew what you knew, if we had the education you had like, it would have been different”. Of course, it would have, yeah, and that's no brainer, I do believe they did the best they could with what they had. I think that's true about every parent, okay? Is that they're all doing the best they can.

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[Kyle]: So, once I understand that, then I can write down what are the things that I love that they gave me. Like you talked about Christmas, that was a no-brainer to you, “I’m checking that, I want to pass that on”, right? For me it was sports and activity and outdoor stuff and you had that too in your family as well, but let's check that off, right? So, what did we do? We put the kids in soccer, I played soccer, I love soccer. So, you naturally want to do these things and pass these things on. So, these were positive things in my life that I wanted to pass on, but then there's other things, if I’m holding it loosely, I can look at it “I didn't like this”, you know? For us. I didn't like being spanked; I didn't think it was helpful. I remember specifically times when my older brother would say “hey Kyle, just put a wallet in your back pocket and think of something funny”. I mean, and I look back and I think “what was actually being accomplished when I was being spanked? It was like I was purposely subverting any kind of message”. I just thought “let's get this over, so you can be done with it”, right? But I didn't really learn anything from it, you know?

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[Kyle]: So, I looked at those kinds of things, I was able to hold-- “Yeah, I don't pass that on, I don't want my kids being scared of me”, you know?

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[Sara]: Yeah, and I want to throw in the word, as you say, you're holding it, you’re-- The audience can't see, but your hand is open.

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[Kyle]: Oh yeah. That’s right.

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[Sara]: He's just sitting there talking with his hands open, but it's sort of a place of not just like going back to judge everything right and wrong and to hold a whole court for your parents and what they were doing. We know such different information now than what was held then and—

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[Kyle]: Just like the pop in that metaphor I was saying, right? We know the pop ain't good for you, right?

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[Sara]: Yeah, and it's not really that the goal of this is not to go back and do all of that, it's to just like you said, you're holding your hands open just looking at things going “okay, what of this do I want to bring forward? What of this do I want to just change a little bit and bring forward?”

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[Sara]: So, it's just visiting those things.

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[Kyle]: Yeah. I mean, it could even be “I didn't like yelling”. I thought there's way too much yelling in my house, so I want to try to do that less, you know? So, it could be something simple like that, to something like punishment, to something-- You know, whatever it is. I mean, even like finances it could be “I feel like we were always, you know, stressed and fearful finances. I want to make that different for my kids, I don't want them--”, you know. Even like having a house, all the time you just stayed there, right? I know you moved quite frequently. So, to have a place that you could just have a home base, right? That'd be great, you know? All those ideas.

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[Kyle]: So, you're holding it loosely, you're looking at it and like Sara said, it's not about, you know, judging it, but it's about just saying “what do I really want to pass on to the kids?”.

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[Sara]: “What's helpful here?”

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[Kyle]: What's helpful, yes, great, that's fantastic. So, I think that'd be a great exercise to do is, to hold those there and just look at those and think “what do I want to pass on?”. I’m thinking there may need to be some forgiveness in there, you know? I think that might free me to do that. I think for sure there were things I feel like I needed to forgive about my childhood to then free me to see another possibility. I think there also might need to be-- I’m thinking of like some research and what I mean by that is to have a model. Maybe I didn't see this in my family, but I would like to see it in my family, right? So, maybe I get it from reading a great parenting book or even a book a movie you're watching. You're like “Oh, I wish my family was more like that”, you know?

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[Kyle]: I mean, I remember specifically watching certain sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, where I just saw different way families-- I remember a little kid going “why can't my family do that? or could we do that? I mean, I know it's make-believe because it's a tv series, but I wonder if that could be possible, you know? To create some kind of--" Because they're dealing with conflict differently than how we're dealing with it at home, you know? Maybe you know another family that you think, not to compare yours to theirs, but you go “I really like how they handle that”. Once again, I’m holding it loosely, it's not that they're doing it good and you're doing it bad, but I’m just like “I would like that”, you know? And then you just integrate it into your family. So, you can do it by looking at your family of origin, but you can also do it by looking around you and seeing how other people are doing the legacies they're leaving and you can add it to yours, right? Maybe it's a legacy of travel, I know you and I want to travel a lot with the kids and so, I want the kids to see the world, you know? You and I have gotten a chance to see the world and there's so many cool things to see and it's really expanded us and that's a big part of the legacy. We want the kids to routinely get out of Oklahoma and go see the mountains of Colorado and the beauty of, you know, all of America has to offer, the whole world has to offer.

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[Sara]: Yeah. Music was a--

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[Kyle]: Oh yeah, that’s good.

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[Sara]: A big one in my childhood, my mom, my grandparents and that's something that-- And I know you've always enjoyed music with your dad and things and so, that's something I know we've brought into our home too. So, some of these things are very, very light and you know, not critical.

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[Sara]: And then there's other things we think “oh, my parents were very intentional about their parenting” and I think that did really inspire me to go “wow, okay, what kind of parent--? How do I want a parent?”. Because I saw them very intentionally. It doesn't mean they always got it right, but they were working for that, they were-- It was on their mind, they were working towards trying to be the best parent they could be, so to speak and I think that did inspire me to think “okay, what am I gonna take here? How am I gonna parent?”

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[Kyle]: I even love that you said that, Sara, that I think in this, this seems trivial, but I think kids want to see us grab a hold of our desires, you know? So, even when you said something like “we really like Star Wars”. So, we intentionally watch Star Wars with our kids, right? I really love-- I read comic books as a kid, so I’ve always loved superheroes and I’m so jealous that my kids get to grow up where superheroes are so big, because when I was a kid it was kind of a nerdy thing to like, you know? We really love Legos, so we're really—

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[Kyle]: So, there's all these ways in which our kids get to see us light up and they see us connecting to our desires, you know? I’m even thinking about there was a guy I knew, who loved to fish and because he got really busy with life, you know, I was like “when was the last time he went fishing?” and he hadn't taken his kids fishing hardly ever, you know? And I was thinking “oh, that's so sad, because your kids will never know that about you, that you love to do that, but somehow you let that die because of the busyness of life”, you know? And I think I really was encouraging the guy to like “dude, go fish! Take them fishing with you!”, because I think the kids want to see their dad alive and connected to these things that he desires, you know?

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[Sara]: Well, and that's neat, because as we do that maybe our kids, let's say we have a kid who's like “yeah, Legos aren't my thing”, but they've seen you pull-- You know, “what do I enjoy? Let's do-- Let's bring this in, let's appreciate what we love” and it's not when “oh, I have this desire, let's stuff it down” and so, they learn to do that too even if it's not Legos, which they probably would anyway.

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[Sara]: But they go “oh, what do I like?” and they learn to wake up to their joys and passions in life.

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[Kyle]: Now, I do want to kind of wrap this up, so that that's just like a kind of giving you some practical steps to take, but there is a barrier to this and I think the biggest barrier to changing your legacy is fear. Fear will make it almost impossible to change it, fear is by its very-- Like its very use is to repeat, it isn't to change, it is to repeat it. So, fear says “man, last time I went in the woods a bear tried to eat me, don't go back in those woods”, right? And so, I’m always going to see those woods as the scary place the bear tried to eat me, even though maybe many other families have gone in those woods and never been eaten by a bear, right? But fear won't let me see that possibility, okay? So, if somebody's finding it hard to change a legacy, it's typically they're being held back by fear, you know?

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[Kyle]: A lot of times that fear might be “I don't want to make the same mistakes my parents did” and they'll say some kind of strong statement like that. That actually makes it more likely they will repeat the same mistakes their parents did, right? And so, I want to point that out, that a key component to having the open-handedness, remember-- So, open-handedness is looking at it without fear, without judgment, you know? If I’m holding the thing-- “I don't want to be like my mom, I don't want to be like my dad, I’m not going to do that!”. Like if there's all this anger and bitterness and all stuff there, it's going to make it almost impossible to not repeat it, you know?

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[Kyle]: Anytime I meet with teenagers, Sara, and they say “I’m so sick of my parents, I don't want to be like them” and I be like “well, I think you're going to be, because until you're able to see them as something other than just a caricature of all bad, then you're never going to be open to accepting any good, any good they have to offer, you know? You're never going to see it and therefore you're never going to be able to change it, because you're only focusing on the bad”. We've talked about this in previous sessions that what you focus on, you get more of and I will begin to repeat that cycle over and over again and it's really airy. We've seen it with families, we're almost to the exact age that thing that those parents did, the same mistakes they made, they're making it again because just like that quote said: “inside every parent triggered by the child's behavior is a child who wasn't safe when they behaved in that same way” and I’m talking like, it's almost like to the age, you know? Almost to the age, how they were treated at that age, they end up treating their own kids at that age and it's really-- I gotta open, I gotta let go of fear and I gotta look at it with love, forgiveness, grace and acceptance, but this is the childhood I was given. What parts do I wanna throw away and what parts do I wanna keep and pass on?

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[Sara]: Yeah, there's definitely-- There's a lot of work in the world of a family of, how do these how do we change these generational cycles? Because you will, there's a lot of studies put into, you see families repeat patterns and generation after generation, doing the same thing. Even though they didn't like, it didn't serve them. In some ways was catastrophic, really harm them and then they'll just go on to repeat it and repeat it and it is through the healing, through the forgiveness, through that that you were talking about, that those things if you're thinking “wow, my family keeps doing this, how do we break this?”. Some people call them generational curses or those generational patterns that happen and it's through that, you have to heal that inner child that-- You know, you're triggered and there's this inner child who wasn't safe, you've got to go back and heal that and then you're free.

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[Kyle]: Yeah, and we won't go too deep into this, but as Sara's given that picture, what I love about it, Sara, is that's the cool part about having kids. Is as I’ve been able to change my interactions with them at these ages they are, I’ve actually feel like I’ve healed that part of me, that kid that was that age that wish somebody else would have done it better to me, you know? And I think that's really cool, that kids give us that opportunity and that's why being a parent is so hard, but also so wonderful, because it's only through that relationship and healing that relationship through the kid back to yourself, that you can really get that healing. It's almost impossible to do it just on your own as a single person, it's really recreating that same thing and doing it in a better way through love, acceptance, grace, all those kinds of methods, right?

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[Kyle]: I did want to real quick just give a quick kind of-- One picture I had, Sara, of just like a quick way we would do this and the thought that came to me, was how we've had this discussion with the kids about money. So, our kids, they would get money from birthdays and all this kind of stuff and they were really good about saving the money and then, it was just so sad to watch them each month look at their bank statements and see that they got a penny and be kind of excited. I’m like “this is so sad”, you know? And then-- But then they'd be so stressed about spending it, because they knew they weren't going to get any more until whatever, right? And so, I won't go into depth what we've done, but I remember thinking “oh, what did my parents do with me about money? Oh, we didn't really have enough money for allowance”. Sometimes they did it, but typically it wasn't consistent, but we would do layaway. So, we would see a thing, my parents are really good about “let's put it on layaway” and you learned how to wait for the thing you want and that's a really good skill to learn, right?

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[Kyle]: And so, I’m really glad they gave that to me, but something my parents didn't understand was how money works. It isn't just putting in a savings account just letting it sit there, there is so many other vast ways to understand money and how to invest it and all that kind of stuff. That's not something I even thought about to my 30s, right? But it's a cool way to pass on a new legacy, where I don't want my kids having anxiety about money and part of that comes from gripping and holding it so tight. I want them to more freely understand how it works, so that-- Through talking to some kids that I counsel and stuff like that is, like some kids are learning how to invest money in their teenagers, you know? It's awesome and so, I started like-- We got them like an app and I want the kids to be able to put some money in investments and we're working towards understanding that, so they can see money differently. So, this is another example how you can leave a different type of legacy.

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[Kyle]: So, I hope this helps, I hope this causes some thought in you to really reflect upon the legacy you and your spouse want to leave your kids or you as a single parent want to leave your kids and to really know that they can start today. You can intentionally start guiding them towards that different legacy today, because you're going to guide them towards some legacy. Just be thoughtful and attention about the legacy you are going to leave, don't just let it happen by chance, okay? So, it's been so great having this conversation, I love talking to you with Sara about this. So, I hope all the listeners just have a great day.

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[Sara]: Thanks for listening.