Episode 159

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.038)
Okay, this is gonna be the intro to our interview with Jessica Turner. all right, so take one, here we go.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:17.176)
Okay, sorry, me keep my focus here.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:23.310)
What's the name of the book again? Let me look here again. Okay, I thought it would be better.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:31.726)
Okay.
How many of you have felt disappointment and disillusionment in being a parent or being married or, you know, just being alive? Okay, start over. like that, but let me start over. Okay, take two.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:51.862)
Everybody listening to this podcast right now has had moments where they have just felt disappointment and disillusionment about being a parent, about raising kids, about what it was gonna be like to be married or do this whole parenting journey with somebody else. Okay. I like it.

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:14.090)
Life can be full of so many surprises and so many disappointments. So many times on this parenting journey, there's moments of disillusionment, moments where you wake up and it's not what you expected it to be. I know I have felt that at times as a dad raising three kids. I'm sure you have as well where events in life have gone away you never expected them to. And maybe the dream you had as a parent, it isn't turning out the way you thought it would. Well, today we have an amazing guest.
uh for us today, a guest who has a really powerful story to share about how her dreams went to different directions.

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:57.546)
Okay. There's so many times in life where things go in a way we never expected it to. So many times on this parenting journey where the dreams we had don't seem to be coming true. Maybe there's a lot of disappointments around the marriage or your partner who you're doing this parenting journey with, or maybe you're just waking up and you're realizing you're not the parent you wanted to be.
And so today we wanted to bring somebody on who really knows. Man, my throat, sorry.
We'll get this. Take five, okay? Take five. This is it, I promise you. Yeah.
life is full of ups and downs. It's full of joy and it's full of disappointment. And I know for many of you listening, you've had moments where you've woken up and life isn't turning out the way you thought it would. And maybe you've been filled with disappointment or been somewhat disillusioned what it means to raise kids, to be married or be in a relationship with somebody else. that's not what you hoped it would be either. And maybe even just your career and your life, the direction it's going, it's just...
It's not turned out the way you hoped it would. Well, that's why we wanted to bring on a fabulous guest, a great storyteller, but a very vulnerable, honest person, Jessica Turner. She's coming out with a book soon. It just dropped recently called, I Thought It Would Be Better Than This. I how many of us have felt that exact same sentiment? And so today you're gonna be in store for a great story of not only grief and loss, but also hope and resilience.

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:37.934)
um And how she's been able to create something new with her kids and with her ex-husband and how all that's come together She's gonna give you some awesome tips if you're in one of those moments right now Where you're wondering what you can do when your disappointment and disillusioned with your life and the way it's it's happening or the relationship with your kids isn't the way you hoped it would be she's gonna give you some beautiful insight and wisdom to help you start to create the life that you would like to have she has
really been such a powerful voice on Instagram. She's got one of the top mom blogs on Instagram. She has been featured on the Today Show and Time Magazine and Better Home and Garden, all types of different places where she's been able to share her story and share her thoughts on all different types of subjects. So you are in for a treat today. So take a moment before you dive into it. If you haven't already, stop, review, comment, all that. It really helps these type of episodes be heard by more parents and provide more hope and support.
to all the different moms and dads who listen to this podcast or more people that you think could be helped by the podcast. So please share it and leave that, means the world to us. And then sit back and get ready for Jessica Turner.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.198)
Hello and welcome to The Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sarah. And you know, Sarah, I think so many parents who listen to our podcast, they've had moments in their lives, I know we've had these moments too, where maybe what we thought parenting was gonna be or marriage was gonna be, um it just isn't turning out that way, you know? Yeah, yeah. I was just saying, we were having a little conversation before, you have this moment, I think everyone at some point, maybe multiple points, wakes up and goes, hold on here.
This is not what I thought. And the disappointment or the grief or the just the reality of it all hits you. Yeah. And I think mine really hit about six months into being a dad and just waking up every three hours and thinking, why is this baby not sleeping? I thought everyone said,
Like sleep like a baby was a term that meant they slept really well. Little cute bundle of joy and you're not feeling the joy. Yes. Well today listeners, we wanted to introduce you to a guest who knows too well what that journey is like. And you are going to be really connecting with her story today because I think it's something we all can resonate with. So Jessica Turner is coming out with a book. It's already been released, right? Jessica, just a few weeks ago. Okay. And it's called, I thought it would be better than this.
So Jessica, if you could kind of just jump right into why did you write this book and what happened to your life to bring about the inspiration for

Jessica Turner (1:22.352)
Sure. Well, I wrote the book after my husband came out during the pandemic. We'd been married 16 years. We had three kids. And listen, that is not what I imagined my life was going to look like. I thought I would be married for 50 years to the same person. life would just kind of look very storybook and the way I thought life was supposed to be. was...

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:38.446)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (1:46.724)
what I thought my life would be. And the subtitle of the book is, rise from disappointment, regain control, and rebuild a life you love. there were many points in my journey after our divorce. My ex-husband Matthew and I are still very good friends. He lives just on the street. We co-parent really well. I'm sure we'll get into that in this conversation. I still had only known adulthood as uh married.
person. I met Matthew when I was 20. We were married at 22. And so there was a lot of work that I needed to do on myself to really feel whole and desirable and worthy and all of those types of words kind of on my own apart from my personhood as a wife and as a married person doing parenting with somebody 24 seven like all of that was different. And
what I realized in my journey is we all have something. We all have disappointments. And so I wanted to write a book that addressed disappointment in life. So it's not a divorce book. It's not a my husband came out as gay book. It really is a grief and disappointment book and a letting go of what we thought our life would be and a commitment to creating a life that we love, even though our life is different than what we anticipated.
I did focus groups with women from all over the country who had various disappointments and had them read the book and made sure that they felt like they resonated with the content. And so it really is, I think, a special book because it straddles memoir and self-help and really makes people, I think, feel seen. I'm sure you guys could see that in the pages that you read. just makes you feel less alone no matter what your disappointment is, whether it's, God, I thought parenting was going to be a whole lot easier than this or.

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:28.076)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica Turner (3:36.410)
I thought my finances would look different than they do. I thought I would be in a different place in my career. Or you are a divorced parent and you thought marriage and relationship and parenting would look different than this. All of those things, I hold space for them in the book.

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:50.316)
Well, I know that's definitely something a lot of parents feel, just going back to where I was kind of being silly a little bit about Abby's or oldest's sleep issues. But I remember Sarah and I just kept thinking, what are we doing wrong? Why is she not sleeping? Why do we suck at this? And it was just like, you start getting really down on yourself and start thinking like, I must be screwing this up. And then that leads into for me, Jessica, I started like,
becoming a dad I didn't want to be. I was more angry, I was yelling more, and I think a lot of that came from the grief and the disappointment of what I thought it was gonna be. I thought we were just gonna have all these magical moments of Abby just sleeping peacefully on my chest as I watched football. And there were those moments, but those moments were a lot less than every night her waking up constantly.

Jessica Turner (4:39.020)
Yeah, for sure. And I think the acknowledgement of what the disappointment is, is very important. So if people listening resonate with the idea of they thought that parenting would be better than this, whether it is uh a baby who doesn't sleep or it's a teen that you have conflict with, or it's a health issue that you're dealing with, or it's something else that you're juggling in your life that then is impacting your parenting, I think
at first acknowledging what that is, I take people through an exercise in the book of naming your this. What is the this? And then what are the adjacent things that are related to that? So in my story, I thought marriage would be better than this. Well, I then thought parenting would be better than this because I thought I'd be parenting with someone all the time instead of by myself. Or I thought my finances would be better than this because I thought I would have two incomes as I was

Kyle And Sara Wester (5:11.086)
Hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (5:33.069)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (5:33.198)
raising my kids, all of those things, right? And so when you take the time to really unpack that, you can then begin to heal and move forward and write a different story with the story that you've been given, right? em But acknowledgement is so, important.

Kyle And Sara Wester (5:52.386)
Yeah, I love as you were talking, I think everyone's gonna have a different version of that, but it's universal, right? We've all had those moments where we wake up one day and we finally face it. I think for a while we talk it back or we ignore it or it sits somewhere and we're not ready to look at it. But then this moment comes where you go.

Jessica Turner (6:7.504)
That's right.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:14.464)
wow, this is really different than I expected. And when you let that really hit you, it hits hard and you don't know what to do next. And you see that it is attached to all these other things. So I'm kind of wondering if you're in that space, what did you do or what, when it just hits you, it can knock the wind out of you, it can knock you down and you just don't, you're lost in the midst of that.
So what did you do or what do you tell people?

Jessica Turner (6:42.128)
Sure.
Well, what I wished was that I had this book, right? So what I would tell people who are listening, right, is to buy the book because I do think that it is a great help and a witness to what you are feeling. I think that it's really important to, if you are not already engaging in therapy, that people do that. I think having a safe, neutral place to process these things with somebody who is clinically trained.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:47.544)
the

Jessica Turner (7:12.420)
to help you navigate hard situations and emotions, I think is really powerful. I had never done therapy prior to my husband coming out and it was life-changing. And I think it exponentially helped me heal because I wasn't relying on myself. I wasn't relying only on friends who really couldn't speak into my situation, right? I didn't know anybody who had gone.

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:36.482)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (7:38.576)
through this. had friends that I could rely on as I was feeling a lot of feelings and saying I was sad and feeling lonely and those types of things. But it was really important, I think, to engage in therapy. uh I also think that it's important to recognize that forgiveness is important. And that might be forgiveness of yourself. It might not have anything to do with forgiveness for somebody else. And it might be both.

Kyle And Sara Wester (7:58.092)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:2.444)
Yes, yes.

Jessica Turner (8:8.194)
It's important to know, this sounds elementary, but I think so many people think of forgiveness as something for someone else. That you're saying sorry, we do it as parents, right? We say, your brother that you're sorry for hitting him or tell your sister that you're sorry for talking that way, right? And you want to repair the relationship. And certainly that happens when we apologize and seek out forgiveness. But ultimately we are doing that to repair feelings in ourselves. m
and to be able to move forward. And forgiving is not forgetting. Forgiving is not giving permission for a behavior that was harmful. But forgiving is a path toward freedom and healing and healthiness. And so I do think that oftentimes with disappointment comes the need for forgiveness, whether it is a parenting choice that you made or it's a choice you made in your career or just a choice that you've made in life. uh
For me, I had to forgive myself because I didn't know that my ex-husband was gay. And I was like, how can I not know this? This is my best friend. This is the person I share a bed with. I've made three babies with, like I work in business with. Like, how did I not know? Like, what is wrong with me? I didn't know because he didn't want me to know, right? I did the best with this information that I had. And I had to forgive myself for that because if I didn't,

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:11.714)
Yeah,

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:24.088)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (9:36.046)
all that it would bring is more harm to me instead of freedom and moving forward. So I think that's another big one is around the topic of forgiveness. And I talk about that a lot in the book at the beginning as well.

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:46.936)
Yeah. I love that. I love that you highlight forgiveness as much as it feels like you're letting the other person, it's for the other person. It really is for you because you are just bound up in that until you're able.
And that forgiveness is such an important part. So I love that you highlight that. And I love that when we're in these moments, books like yours, you need that guide. You need something to kind of hang onto because you can feel so lost. So counseling books like yours help, help you just get your feet under you and, and guide and come alongside you as you're on this journey. Yeah. Yeah. I think definitely a lot of what you were experiencing too is the grief and
loss of what you wanted to have as a family, right? And so how did you, how were you able to recreate that? I know you mentioned that. I think that's a big part of it is first the realization of this isn't what I thought it would be dealing with that disappointment, that disillusionment. But I think not staying there once you've done the forgiveness piece, you can move forward to create something else. How did you find the strength to do that? How did you start to create something new that I think you'd say you're pretty proud of now, but how were you able to find that?

Jessica Turner (10:59.290)
I think what you said initially and then how you pivoted is a really important nuance in that it wasn't that we were recreating what we had, it was creating something new. And so I think as we move forward in disappointment, there is a letting go and a permission to create something new and that that new thing can still be beautiful. Yes, this is not the life I imagined when we still travel like once a year with my ex-husband and our three kids and so it's just the five of us.
Those trips are different than what they would look like if we were married, right? We get an Airbnb that has more space, that gives Matthew and I space to be separate from one another. Certainly we have our own bedrooms, em but there's still beautiful memories that are made together that we think are really important for our kids. And I think I'm grateful that Matthew and I both were committed to still uh
considering ourselves a family even though we were divorced. That now, yes, my kids have two bedrooms and two houses and their parents are not together most of the time, right? That they could still look at their parents as a unit, supporting them and loving them and cheering them on. Sometimes that means me having a disagreement with my kids and saying, I'm gonna call your dad. I want your dad to be part of this conversation, which I don't.

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:53.730)
Yeah. uh

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:18.187)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (12:19.246)
I don't think that that is super common with divorced couples, but that's been something that's been important for us. I think too with raising two boys, I do think that having a male voice is sometimes really helpful in parenting. And I'm grateful that that works in reverse with my ex-husband as well. em And it's also being flexible that if something doesn't feel right or doesn't, we want to go a certain way that we can do it differently. I know that there've been situations where I've said to Matthew, you know that

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:22.061)
Yep.

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:31.618)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (12:48.132)
doesn't feel comfortable for me, can we do it this way instead? And so figuring out what those boundaries need to be is really important. I think it's a good reminder that a boundary without a consequence is just a suggestion. So having those boundaries and being firm in those is really important as well.

Kyle And Sara Wester (12:51.652)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:8.414)
how are you guys able to get that trust back? Because I know a lot of parents that we coach, many do come see us, Jessica, in divorce situations. And the parenting is so different. And they're wanting to get on the same page, but there's still, I mean, I'm trying to help them, but there's still so much hurt between the two. They almost can't even be in the same room together. uh so therefore it's like, how can we talk about these things with, about the kids?
in if we can't even be in the same room together. I know some people it's about safety and they don't feel safe being in same room and I totally understand that. But other cases it's we just can't hear each other anymore. How do you kind of come back to that space when the trust the respect has been broken down? Yeah, that'd be difficult.

Jessica Turner (13:49.520)
I'm grateful that that was not my story, em that Matthew and I still trusted one another, particularly when it came to parenting, even though he withheld this information from me. I think that there was a lot of freedom when he was able to speak his truth. And I don't think that it really bled into how we were parenting. We have a lot of conversations around some things being consistent.

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:15.362)
Hmm. yeah, yeah.

Jessica Turner (14:15.572)
Usually it's around chores. I'm a bit more strict with chores at my house than their dad is. so making sure that the kids are kind of like having to do the same types of things and having the same expectations is really important. Sometimes we'll have conversations like this is my expectation. How does that land for you? You know, either way. um Or if we see something in the other parent, thankfully we can still say,

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:34.818)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Turner (14:43.812)
to each other like, hey, I don't think that's how you want to respond. uh Matthew's usually more gentle about that um coming to me and I'll kind of bristle, um but know that ultimately our goal is for our kids to feel heard and respected and have the best positive home life that they can have despite having divorced parents. I think that for the couples who are listening to this who do feel

Kyle And Sara Wester (14:52.494)
you

Jessica Turner (15:12.140)
unsafe or you know are in a more volatile situation. I've certainly I'm dating a wonderful man right now and have been for a year but prior to dating him I had some experiences with relationships where this spousal relationship the ex-spouse it was not as positive as it is with mine and so I have some experience from that and I think anything you can do to just show respect to one another that that still is
the mother of your child or the father of your child and try to have those conversations, even if it is in like a therapeutic session so that you can have someone neutral of, these are the things I want to talk about. At one point you loved this person and at one point you both believed like that the other one wanted what was best for your kids. And so I think if you can come back to what you knew to be true at one point, that's a good place to start.
And it might be working through a book like I thought it would be better than this and figuring out what those things are because sometimes we don't take the time to articulate what the pain point is. And if we haven't done that work, we can't move forward. Right. And so it sounds like some of those couples haven't done that work.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:18.572)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:26.304)
No, I think, well, I think it's hard to even one, like you said, identify it much less articulate it and then be vulnerable enough to share it. Yeah. And so I think the sharing piece, sounds like you and Matthew have done that. You guys have been able to articulate that and share that with each other. Those disappointments.

Jessica Turner (16:33.220)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (16:42.586)
That's right, yeah. And that doesn't mean that sometimes it isn't still hard or there's still things like that we have to navigate or things look different than they did when we first divorced. Now with he and I both being in committed relationships, we're having to do some things differently and figure out what feels good for us and for our partners and all of that, right? And so there does need to be some flexibility, I think, as well. And I'm thankful that Matthew and I both...
want that. em And I know that that is rare, but hopefully hearing stories like ours will encourage people that it's possible to have because I do think that it's possible.

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:15.276)
Yeah. Yeah. Can you share, how did you help, I think with your kids, this thing, this thing was hard for you and hard for Matthew. But of course Sarah and I are always thinking about the kids too. We're always like, how did the kids feel during all this? How did they get help? What? So I'm kind of curious, Jessica, how did you intentionally, you were doing your work, you were getting help through therapy. How did you intentionally help the kids navigate?
this disappointment in their life as well.

Jessica Turner (17:46.564)
Yeah, so at the time my kids were in, let's see, they were going into kindergarten, fourth, third or fourth grade, and then seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade, something like sixth grade, maybe sixth grade. I know my little list was in kindergarten, so I'm just trying to do the math from that, because it was kindergarten during the pandemic in separate houses. A funny story, you guys have probably had similar experiences. My little boy went,

Kyle And Sara Wester (17:55.859)
Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:2.666)
Yeah, yeah. ah

Jessica Turner (18:15.172)
He was on Zoom in kindergarten, decided to go to the bathroom on Zoom right there in the middle of class, not really. And I was on a conference call in my office and the teacher texted me, Ezra's going to the bathroom right now on Zoom. I've turned off his camera, but you might remind him he can leave his laptop where he is. you know, was sometimes those situations that happened. wasn't even at my house, you know? But they, em I remember.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:25.385)
Oh my goodness.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:31.118)
So,

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:39.309)
you

Jessica Turner (18:43.216)
My daughter, she's always been wise beyond her years and her saying, I think she was eight, daddy, if you're gay, why did you marry mommy? And I was like, that was a good question, Adeline. Your mommy's been asking that for a year. Thankfully, Matthew and I were working on this for over a year before our kids were aware. So we were doing therapy. Matthew came out to me in spring of 2019 that he was bi.
And he told me it was gay in fall of 2019. Then, and then we were grappling with for a few months, should we have like a mixed orientation marriage, we still love each other, our kids, you know, and it was like, what's the, the best imperfect choice that we can make? Because both of these choices are imperfect. Like either we stay together, which has a host of imperfect things, really for us in particular.

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:20.386)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:26.904)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (19:35.856)
um or we get divorced, which maybe is better for us as individual human beings, but it's going to inflict more pain for our kids that it feels that way. But maybe if we stay together, we're actually inflicting more pain, you know, like, oh gosh, it was so hard. um I hate thinking about it now, even five years out from it. um But we had done a lot of work. had, I'm fortunate, Daystar has a counseling program here that's just incredible. do.

Kyle And Sara Wester (19:41.644)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Turner (20:4.368)
national work as well. And so I remember talking with them, we got set up with some great counselors there ready for our kids for right after we talked to them about it. And we were just always really open with any questions that they had. It definitely helped that my ex husband's house was in the same neighborhood. I mean, it's literally a 90 second drive. And that has been a real blessing that it was just down the street.

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:25.078)
Hmm. Yep.

Jessica Turner (20:32.708)
So lot was still familiar to them. The same pool at both houses in our neighborhood. And I helped with decorating their rooms. so I think that they felt really supported through that transition. One thing that's been really important for our kids is consistency with schedule. Matthew and I are very flexible. If one of us has to travel or whatnot, we will easily change our parenting schedule. And I know that that's not always true.

Kyle And Sara Wester (21:0.716)
Mm-hmm. m

Jessica Turner (21:1.762)
That is another area of, feel like a lot of inflexibility with divorced couples. And I don't get it. Like I just am like, man, if this is what's best for your co-parent and what's best for your kids, like, come on, like we can be flexible here. And so, um, but we have found particularly with our daughter, she really loves the schedule the way it is. And so, um, she may need a little more support if things are kind of out of whack. Um, like with me launching this book.

Kyle And Sara Wester (21:13.186)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Turner (21:30.204)
We've been doing like more of a seven on seven off kind of schedule. We normally have a 60-40 split. So I've been with the kids a little less. Their rhythms of being at both houses every week has been different. And so just paying attention to that has been really important for us, recognizing at times when they might need more support or for noticing changes in behavior and that sort of thing. And again, just having good open communication with Matthew, I think has made it really good and positive. I think my kids are
so strong, so resilient, and I'm grateful that it hasn't been hard. We do have one thing in our divorce decree that I'm grateful for other divorced parents telling me about, and that is em the parent can't have somebody else staying over with them until they've been dating for six months and the kids have met that person. And we put that in place because we didn't know what dating was gonna look like for either one of us.

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:17.154)
Yep. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (22:29.154)
just to kind of protect the kids. It's really not been an issue, but I'm glad that we did it because I had friends who, you know, their ex-husbands were having women staying over that the kids didn't know or they hadn't been around very long and that sort of thing. And that was really harmful for the kids. So I was grateful that we put that in place. And so by the time the kids have met people that we've been dating, it's been a significant amount of time. They're very well aware of who that person is.
and whatnot. So even that transition of like having someone stay over, you know, has not really been a big deal for them.

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:58.518)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just sounds like you all have done so much work, even on the front. When, when all this was first starting, you immediately got support, both of you. You immediately, you just, your communication is really, it sounds really beautiful. And I think it does. If families are in this situation, it helps to go, Oh, okay. This is, this is what this is kind of guides me. says, okay, I want to.
I want to support my kids. need to do that work myself. And that can be so hard, but we have got to get out and do the work as the parent, no matter what situation, no matter what disappointment, no matter, it starts with us. I love how you're kind of showing that how you started, you too started with your work and your part. And then you go to your kids and you surround them with the support. But now how much the space you're in is so much better to be able to be there for them.
and help them on that journey. And it sounds like even years later, this is your, you keep this map, communication and support, and you keep doing that. And now that you're a few years out and you are, I think it's probably an ongoing work, but you can look back to those who are at the beginning of that, whatever that disappointment is, whatever that big thing is, what would you kind of say looking back?
What would you say or what you say to those people who are there in that side of things? Yeah, because I was just thinking, Jessica, people that are listening right now and some of them probably crying and saying, man, I totally feel the same way. totally, I'm in this moment. It's so cool to hear she's out of it. But yeah, if you can go back to what you would say to them. Yeah.

Jessica Turner (24:25.040)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (24:37.156)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Turner (24:40.696)
Yeah, for sure. I think one of the most powerful things that was said to me was that you can only control the lines that you're writing in your story. And what my friend meant by that is I couldn't control that Matthew was gay. I couldn't control what he was wanting for our relationship, what things were going to look like. But I could control
how I was responding, I could control how I was choosing to parent my kids through it. I could control how I was taking care of myself, how I was taking care of my body, being committed to going to therapy. Those were things that I could control. As I was writing the lines of this story, of this marriage ending, of this rebuilding of my life, there was still a lot of control that I had. And it's interesting, titling books is something that is...
significant amounts of time and energy and conversation as you can imagine. the line in the subtitle of Regain Control was one that had a lot of contention around it. There were some people on my publishing team and around me who were like, oh, that word control. I don't like that. We don't have control. Bad things happen to us. I'm like, yeah, I'm a testament of that. I had no control that my husband was gay and decided that it was best for him to leave. I didn't have control of that.

Kyle And Sara Wester (25:53.282)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (26:2.084)
But I had control still of my story. I had control of how I responded, how I was going to move forward. This wasn't going to be the end for me. And so I think recognizing that you hold the pen and you can still write a beautiful story for your life, even if it's not the story you imagined your life would be, that doesn't mean that it can't be beautiful. In some ways, I feel like my life now is better than it ever was. I'm so happy. I feel so whole. I feel like I'm a better

Kyle And Sara Wester (26:27.394)
Hmm. uh

Jessica Turner (26:31.960)
because I'm a better healed human. The love that I now have in a new relationship has been so redemptive. And so I hope too, when people see me kind of on the other side, that that gives them hope, that that um gives them a little light to look toward, because I know it feels so dark. It feels so dark when you are in the midst of sorrow and despair and frustration. The other thing that I had to learn the hard way that I hope I can communicate to people
is don't worry so much about the future. I don't know if you guys do much with the Enneagram at all, but I'm an Enneagram eight. And so I really love control. No wonder there we go. So I really love control. so I remember, I mean, Matthew and I were so married and I was like, what is it to be like to date? How am I going to do it? How am going to do it with kids? How like, like just a million stories that I was writing and things about the future that I was thinking about.

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:4.152)
Hmm.
Sure, we do. Me too Jessica, what's up Apes?

Jessica Turner (27:28.376)
And my therapist had to consistently remind me, what do you need today? What do your kids need today? Like, don't worry about a month from now. Don't worry about how the internet is going to respond to your divorce. You are telling your parents next week, you know, like, what do you need right now? And so that's the other thing is don't try to get too wrapped up in what the future is going to look like, but focus on your healing and your growth and what you need right now. And
as you invest those steps, those very, very slow steps. share a story in the book about going to PT. And when I was going to PT, was for Achilles tendonitis and the movements are so small to fix Achilles tendonitis. And it takes a year of doing these very, very small movements. And then all of a sudden there's healing. And that is such a good analogy for our lives, right? Like it is a million small movements and choices that you make.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:17.965)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (28:26.158)
day after day and me doing these toe bounces. And you have to be intentional and resilient and diligent. um So stay really present in your story, even when it's really hard. I cried every day for over a year. I could cry right now thinking about crying every day for a year. um But that is what has got me to where I am now and I think is good advice for anyone who's feeling really in the dark at the moment.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:27.483)
And being intentional, you gotta be intentional to do them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (28:51.410)
Can you say it again? That's the thing about the lines. Say it one more time so people can hear it.

Jessica Turner (28:55.508)
that you hold the pen to write the lines of your story. And so write lines that you're really proud of every single day, even in those hard, hard moments.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:1.260)
Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:7.682)
Well, and the thing I was thinking, Jessica, too, that you did in the work you were doing that Sarah highlighted is you did that for your kids too, is that you also you also modeled and taught them how to take a pen and begin to create the story they wanted to. Because so many times, especially at the age your kids were at, there is this sense of this is all happening to me and I have no power control. And as a fellow Enneagram eight, I'm always telling kids like.

Jessica Turner (29:14.435)
Absolutely.

Jessica Turner (29:27.600)
That's right.

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:32.734)
You have the power and control to change this. can't, I know it seems like you don't, um but it's so much more helpful when they see one of the parents doing that as well. And you can see them taken every day and saying, this is the story I want to write today. This is the chapter I want to be part of my story today. And as you do that, you'll look back and you'll find, yeah, it's a book full of pain and sorrow, but also a book full of joy and healing. Yeah.

Jessica Turner (29:34.778)
That's right.

Jessica Turner (29:43.331)
Absolutely.

Jessica Turner (29:48.592)
That's right.

Jessica Turner (29:57.488)
That's right. That's right. Yeah. And hopefully the book that you're writing for your own life is actually a lot more joy than it is sorrow. But when we think about the best movies, the best stories, there's always pain. There's always pain. There's always suffering. There's always this turning point moment, right? And so I think when people see the book title, I thought it would be better than this. think it's a really sad book, but it's actually a really hopeful book. And I think I'm looking back amazed at

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:7.104)
Mm-hmm.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:11.053)
of

Jessica Turner (30:26.714)
how many of those things that I was doing and discussing in therapy have come out in my parenting? So many things that I was learning about forgiveness, about repair, about taking care of myself that that had such a positive ripple effect on my parenting and the way I interact with my kids and the language we use at home that I'm so grateful for that as well because I think, man, they are gonna grow up to be much healthier adults than I was initially because of those lessons.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:30.740)
Mmm, yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (30:53.110)
Yeah. Well, isn't that the hope that because you did that, through the pain and suffering that you endured, and then also healed and came out of that, our kids are going to be so much. And that's kind of, even, even though Sarah and I haven't experienced what you experienced, there have been those same moments of loss and grief and, you know, disappointment. And because we've sought health and we've sought help and healing our kids, they're still going to experience some of that, but they're going to experience.

Jessica Turner (31:16.527)
Yeah.

Jessica Turner (31:20.944)
course.

Kyle And Sara Wester (31:21.514)
a lot less of it, I believe, than what we had to experience or our parents experienced before us, you know, because you continue to grow healthier stuff around you. So I wanted to ask you, where can people find you? Where can they get the book? Kind of point them towards all the places to find more about what Jessica Turner's up to.

Jessica Turner (31:26.864)
That's right.
Absolutely. So good.

Jessica Turner (31:37.912)
Yeah, so the best place to connect with me is on Instagram. It's Jessica N. Turner, that N is for Nicole, or on my website, JessicaNTurner.com. And don't miss the N because JessicaTurner.com is a porn site. you know, you wanna be sure to put that N in there. You can find the book wherever books are sold online at Amazon or Target or your favorite big box store. Call your local indie store, get it there. You can get it in your library. You can also find it on any of your favorite listening platforms.
If you prefer listening to an audiobook, whether that's Audible or Libro FM, or even free on Spotify or Amazon Music. So wherever you like to listen to books, you can find it. And I'm the one who reads it. And what's cool about the audiobook is at the end of it, there's a 20 minute conversation with my best friend, Angie Smith. And she had a tragic loss of em her daughter that she was pregnant with. At the same time I was pregnant with my oldest. She had a diagnosis that was incompatible with life. And we walked through that.

Kyle And Sara Wester (32:21.006)
Mm.

Jessica Turner (32:33.454)
together, we walked through her dad dying, we walked through the ending of my marriage. And so we have a really honest conversation about what it's like to go through something with a friend and be a good friend to somebody who's going through disappointment that people have really been enjoying that conversation that's exclusively with the audiobook.

Kyle And Sara Wester (32:50.830)
Thank you so much. This was wonderful. Appreciate you taking the time and sharing all this with us. Yeah. Thank you for your honesty, your vulnerability, all that Jessica. I appreciate it. And definitely listeners, we'll put all that info on the show notes. So if you want to get that book, if you feel like you are alone currently in your disappointment and grief and loss, and you're looking for hope, definitely get this book.

Jessica Turner (32:56.683)
Oh, it was my great joy.

Kyle And Sara Wester (33:12.062)
and definitely share this episode with friends because we want to make sure you know you're not alone, that all of us, every parent listening has gone through similar disappointment and loss and we all want to come out of that better and more healed and whole. So thank you Jessica for being with us.

Jessica Turner (33:26.864)
It was my pleasure. Thank you so much.