Episode 183

Episode 183 Transcript:

Kyle And Sara Wester (29:28.792)
You know, so many times when you're making changes as a parent and you're trying to be more collaborative and you're trying to co-create with your kids rather than just control them and, ⁓ rather than just demanding obedience and compliance, ⁓ I have found that a little something tends to bubble up in us that we start to feel a little bit like we're losing and they are winning. Like it seems like, ⁓ they're constantly getting what they want, but
What I want is them just to do what I'm saying. And it starts to shift into this, like, is this really good what we're doing? Or is it just a bunch of ⁓ us giving in to what they want? We're just gonna raise a bunch of kids who are enabled and are kind of like, you know, you know, spoiled and selfish, you know? And that fear.
Definitely is real and a lot of parents wrestle with it when they start to shift away from the more controlling authoritarian approach to parenting So today Sarah and I want to dive into that very real fear and we want to talk about how to shift that mindset We're gonna give you some real clear steps ⁓ Throughout this podcast about how you today can start to reshape how you see those moments because it really isn't about winning or losing It's actually about raising kids who have the skills
to know how to create a beautiful life with you and with others. So I hope you'll take a moment if you haven't already to review, rate, comment, all that stuff on the podcast is so helpful to us ⁓ and sit back and enjoy. you're at home where there's a lot of competition and winning and losing, we're gonna help you reshape that today. So I'm glad you're with us and I hope you enjoy this episode.
Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.474)
Hello and welcome to the art of raising humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sarah. And today we're dressed in fall colors, right? Cause it's peak fall. mean, it doesn't feel like fall, but I'm wearing black. You're wearing brown. If people want to see this, they should go check out our YouTube channel, right? Yeah. I mean, we don't have a gigantic falling over there, but it is, I think it's close to a few hundred, maybe something like that.
Okay, I don't remember either. But you should definitely go check it out. You can see all this visually, see our fantastic bookshelf behind us. We've got some amazing books on our shelves, but we're also dressing for the season. I hope you're enjoying your fall season. I'm sure Halloween's right around the corner. I think this will be dropping maybe the week of Halloween. All the pumpkin. Yes, we love pumpkin. We love the pumpkin spice. We like the drinks. We like the food. So I hope you're eating that up and enjoying that. Our kids look forward to the changing colors. We're in Oklahoma.
So the colors aren't vibrant, but they are still beautiful. Yeah, yeah. It just comes a little later. Not as pretty as the North and East. But just so you know, you're getting to know Sarah and I, fall is our favorite color. ⁓ Season. Season. ⁓ And it's our favorite color because it's so pretty. ⁓ So we love the season. Now we wanted to do this podcast, Sarah, specifically because we felt like it was a good partner to our previous podcast where we talked in depth about co-creating.
Okay, so if you want to know what it means to co create with your child to do things with them rather than to them or for them, go check out last week's podcast. ⁓ And you will do a deep dive into that. And the reason why we want to hit this topic is something that comes up a lot when you're talking about co creating. And this just happened a few months back, Sarah, when I was coaching some parents, one of the parents if they're listening, they know who they are, they were saying like, I just feel like
Like it worked whenever I was co-creating. It was bedtime, the kid was wild and crazy, and it worked to make it more playful and do it with them instead of to them, but I felt like I was losing. Right, and I think we've been there. Yeah. And I think that's a real common when you mentioned this, and I thought when we were working on the last podcast, I thought this is going to trigger this because I could feel those messages arising, coming up in my head where I'm like, oh.

Kyle And Sara Wester (2:15.618)
But I if I'm always doing this, sometimes kids just need to do this. know, yeah, yeah. Everything doesn't need to be fun. I remember early on when we were parenting ⁓ initially and just trying to invite the kids into doing some chores, like doing the dishes or ⁓ putting up stuff. And I remember our oldest would start to complain and want it to be fun. And I remember my brain would be like, everything can't be fun, man. Like sometimes ⁓ you do things that stink because they need to get done, you know? You just bury those feelings, throw them out the window. doesn't matter how you feel, you just push.
Yeah, because otherwise you're gonna not be able to push hard things and life is full of hard Well, you're gonna enable these kids are gonna be weak. They have no resilience Everything's gonna be like snowflakes and unicorns constantly and they are winning because they're getting exactly what they want how they want you're losing as the parent yeah, because kids aren't just instant obedient or You're having to you feel like you almost have to jump through hoops and things like that. So I think all I don't know, you know
That's what comes up when we're talking about it. hear other parents, I'm wondering, ⁓ do you guys feel this as parents out there? ⁓ What comes up for you when you think about using play in parenting or think about co-creating in parenting? What triggers do you have come up from that wiring in your brain? Well, I think a lot of parents would say, well, if I don't punish, if I don't require instant obedience, it feels like my kids are getting away with it, right? ⁓ Or if I use play, then my kids win, I lose.
And so let's talk about why this isn't true. And what's really happening when we start to parent, you know, in a collaborative way. That's what we're wanting to do. Right. And I don't know what we're going to title this podcast, but I like this title about parenting isn't about winning or losing. It's about rewiring our mindset for connection. Like it really is in this podcast, you're gonna hear, we're trying to shift the paradigm, you know, change the focus. And that that's really what happened. Like in that moment when I wanted our daughter to just do the chore without it being fun.
I didn't care about connection. ⁓ I just wanted it my way. And then she was saying, but I want it my way. And that's why it becomes a winning-losing scenario when ⁓ I'm the one guiding that. I'm the one letting her know if this is a winning or losing by how I react to it. And so we want to talk about how you can respond differently in those moments. And it can become an awesome moment for connection, but also just teaching your kids a different way of approaching those moments.

Kyle And Sara Wester (4:38.516)
Right, right. It's this, you know, we get this fear response in us and it's that old wiring, you know, and so it's this conversation today. It's recognizing that and and kind of reframing things in our own mind instead of the winning and losing reframing to this connection mindset and what it's building in us and in our children. Yeah. So let's talk about where that comes from, right? Where's the winning losing? Why did I?
immediately go to that when those situations happen. Why do so many of us and you listening know if you do ⁓ just default to that? Well, first of all, I think because it's rooted in kind of old models of parenting, kind of that authoritarian obedience driven parenting. It was my way or the highway type thinking, you know, there was very few options. And so in that, that looks very much like a dichotomous, one of us wins, one of us loses. Right. It's and I want to say it's in parenting, but I would say that
that mentality it's in the workplace, know, that whole boss versus employees. You know, it's like the employees are against the boss or trying to get things from the boss or, you know, it's like this, not together, they're opposed, or the boss is trying to make the employees work and if he doesn't, you know, ⁓ hold something over them, their paycheck, whatever, then things aren't gonna get done. They're not gonna work. It's all over the place in the school system. That. I also think it's very much shaped by our culture, our family of origin and
kind of our fear of raising entitled kids, you know? So a lot of the winning-losing happens in the sibling relationships. A lot of it is like you're trying to get your parents to do what you want rather than what your brother or sister wants. it's, and then like you said, in the school system and those kinds of things, it is a real winning, the teacher winning, you losing. I mean, I've had teachers when I was a school counselor say if they give in to the kid, that kid is gonna win and they will lose. ⁓ Among friends, know, kids in class who's winning and losing, I mean.
You know, we won't get into all this, but even the grading system and there's so many pieces are woven in where you are winning with this and you're losing with this. Yeah. then I think punishment is an easy default because it does feel like it gives us control. It feels like we are winning. We have the power and I can make you do that. Power and control means winning. And honestly, feeling that lack of power control pulls up a lot of anxiety in us. You know, if that maybe that's not your word for it.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:54.764)
But when you feel out of control, when you feel powerless, that's a really awful feeling. And this triggers, it pulls up that feeling in us when we're in this moment with our kid. And it can be something really, really important. We'll feel so powerless and so out of control. And this is our way of regaining that sense. you know. Yeah. And I really do think it does bubble up almost everybody, that fear. We don't want our kids to be entitled, to be spoiled, to think everything's just going to come easy. It's not, you know?
and I feel like we're preparing them for the life that's ahead of them. People will say that. Yeah, the real world ain't gonna treat them like that. They need to get ready for the real world. If you read comments, comments on post, man, it's so full of that. And then that, and I don't even mean to, I'm not even saying that as like belittling those people. That is a very real concern. I can relate to that concern. we had that same thing. Yeah, it's a mindset and we just want to challenge that a bit.
And so the problem is really when you're doing a winning losing type scenario with kids, it sets up parents and kids as opponents, you know, instead of actually being partners, you know, it makes co-creating ⁓ impossible because you're really on two different teams. So you're, really, ⁓ you're, and even like you started, we've talked about this before about you ended up becoming a referee between the siblings. Everything becomes a competition, you know, and it's all about, you know, if I lose, no one's going to feel good about that. So then I got to find a way to
undermine my sibling or you so can win next time and it becomes a real, almost like a ⁓ value in the family, you know, that we all are trying to win. Right. And it does exist. We're not denying that this dynamic doesn't exist in lots of places. You know, obviously the judicial system, there's places this is very, very real. ⁓ The idea is like, is that where we want to be as Is that where want as a home? Yeah.
So then let's shift it. ⁓ how do you shift that mindset and move away from that? See these moments differently. Okay, so if I don't want it to be about winning and losing, I instead want to rewire our minds, our brains for connection. Then like we want to get away from the old question. So the old question that lots of us have in our head that our parents were asking is how do I get my kid to comply? How do I get my kid to obey? How do I get my kid to do whatever it is, right?

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:10.316)
And so ⁓ implied in that question is a real power dynamic that winning and losing is always gonna be at the core of. It's my job to get my kid to do that thing. Yeah, the very wording of that when you're coming with that mindset ⁓ is a power dynamic. It is coming from that place. Anyone who's gonna do something to you. ⁓
right, ⁓ or make you do something. You can feel it inside of you instantly. If your boss was, I'm gonna make you do this, you know, or you, you know, you can feel that inside of you. That person, that boss is not on your team. know, there's something inside of you that rises up to that. And it does in children it's healthy, I think it's healthy. Like, there's actually this autonomy that I think you have, that every kid has, that says, I think...
What? I think I can choose here. I can do something different. doesn't feel good to adults. doesn't feel good feels demeaning. Right. And there's a way for everyone to have a sense of power in a situation. Yep. So you want to switch it. Let's start asking a new question. Get away from the old question. How do I get my child to obey or comply? Let's instead start asking ourselves this question. How can I help my child be more likely to choose? Or in other ways, how can I increase the likelihood my child will choose to? You know, like a real quick one that always pops in my head, is, ⁓
You know, some parents like, how do I get my child to tell the truth? Well, I don't think you can, I don't think you can get you, but what you can do ⁓ is you can increase the likelihood of them telling the truth by being a safe person to tell. ⁓ If you are an unpredictable person, and I'm telling you, I would do this with my boss, I would do this with a police officer. If I thought they were unpredictable, and ⁓ if I told them the truth, they were gonna get really mad at me and ⁓ yell at me and possibly hurt me.
I'm not telling them the truth. I'm gonna try to like bend the truth to where I'll get better outcomes. know? Right. Even in a friendship, any kind of relationship, you think if this person has a history with you where they fly off the handle at things, things that you don't expect them to fly off the handle at, you know, you're gonna be kind of cautious. You're like, what are they gonna do here? What should I, how should I say this? You know, so there's you already, you have that in any relationship if your boss is that way.

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:25.486)
any relationship that's a normal human response. And I'm even thinking like in a healthy marriage, Sarah, I would totally think, okay, if I wanted to do something or buy something, how do I increase the likelihood that Sarah's gonna say yes to this? But I think if we had a marriage that was very conflictual and maybe our connection wasn't that great, I would start slipping into, gosh, she always seems to win and I lose. Sarah gets what she wants, I don't get what I want. So how do I get her?
to agree to this and becomes more coercive. It becomes all those kinds of things, right? As opposed to us collaborating and co-creating together, you know? ⁓ And so this shift really starts to reframe our parenting from power struggles to skill building, right? Let me think about that, guys. It's not about just getting them to do something in a moment, but it's actually teaching them the skill to choose this thing that ⁓ you believe is healthy and good for them, right?
And so it's like you're teaching them a skill rather than just demanding obedience. Right, right. ⁓ To even go back to our podcast before when you're co-creating, ⁓ I think a great one for this is with technology and kids, ⁓ where there's this, ⁓ this pole inside of us to just control how much our kids, you're using it and ⁓ how that looks versus coming alongside of them and creating it with them. ⁓ So I think we all have that.
feeling inside of us and know what that's like. Yeah, so we want to reassure you that this doesn't mean you're giving up authority, right? I mean, you definitely as a parent, you do have authority and power. The kids know that. What it means though, instead of using your power against them, you're using your power and authority to guide and not to overpower. Right. We still, I I think.
All the time we've had lots of responses on social media this way too, where people think you're saying you have no boundaries, your kids are just running wild, they're doing whatever they wanna do, you've given all your authority up, and that is never what we're saying. ⁓ That wouldn't be building the skills ⁓ that you want your child to have. So we're very much about that, about healthy boundaries, about healthy relationships, all of that. And I feel like this is just that mindset switch. ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:38.028)
that makes those things more beautiful and it's in relationship and it's preserving the relationship because you will lose more relationship the other way. Yeah. ⁓ And so next we want to move into specifically kind of what this one parent was saying that I was helping parent coach and it was a thing that I definitely felt when the kids were littler is play just seems like I'm losing, you know, and I want to talk about why play isn't losing. And, I think it's interesting when you watch
all the really good ⁓ children's programming, such as like Bluey or Daniel Tiger or man, our kids used to love Doc McStuffins or all these things. It's like anytime these parents, these shows that these kids love, the parents are always making it playful. And then what you see these really good results, I think even as a parent, I'm watching them, that was really creative. That's really cool. get with that. I don't ever think, ⁓ beware, you keep doing that. Those dogs are gonna come. ⁓
You be a little intimidated by their playfulness and courage. They do have a lot of energy. They do. That's true. We don't always have that much energy. Especially on Bluey. Now he's really good. Where he was rolling down the stairs in one episode. But the ice cream. That's right. But still you see and you go, that's super fun. I can see as a kid why you'd like that. Right. But the objection is they need to know. Our kids need to know life isn't always fun. So why should I use play? I mean, they need to, sometimes you just need to get it done whether you like it or not. You know?
And you want to reframe that. Like, I want to look at it differently. This took some time for me to buy into this, but play is our kids' natural language of learning and connection. It's just how they do it. It's how they make friends. I mean, they're much more cooperative with a friend who plays with them. ⁓ And in the same way, if you're wanting a certain outcome, the way to probably create that likelihood is to make it playful. ⁓ And it doesn't mean that's going to be forever. ⁓ It's just a skill early on to teach them.
This is how we cooperate. Yeah. You feel stuck in that now having teenagers can let you know it won't last forever. Yes. I felt like we had to play all the time when they were young. And you know what? We're just not there anymore. I think it's part of scaffolding. have to remember when your child is really little when they're one, you're using very simple words, right? ⁓ Sit. You know, you don't want to go into a big dialogue because your one year old is not going to understand all of that. ⁓ So it's easy for us to go, well, yeah, I need to scaffold. I need to do.

Kyle And Sara Wester (15:59.402)
little things because they are little. And it's the same way we need to recognize that our children's brains, developmentally, they are in a place of play. So if you want your child to actually learn, if you want them to actually grow, you meet them where they're at developmentally. They will not be there forever. You will not need to play with your 18-year-old, even though playfulness
I mean, ⁓ we all enjoy It just will look different. It will look different. Yeah. And so when you're feeling tired, I mean, I know I would get tired. would just not feel I don't have any more in me. Yes. So just realize it won't last forever. it's OK. We had our moments where I just didn't have it in me to be playful right then. That's OK. Yeah. But when we can, I'd recognize, OK, this is my child's language. I'm going to be more successful if I actually use the language.
and the space they're in than if I keep trying to fight against that. Yeah. And so ⁓ if we'll just not go super deep into it, but let's discuss a little bit of the neuroscience of play that basically when you start playing with your kids, when you do make something playful, it actually activates those neurotransmitters that I'm sure you've all heard all about, stuff like dopamine and serotonin, but it also activates oxytocin, which is...
bonding chemicals so that's why you're see more cooperation. It also helps those mirror neurons like what you'll find you might start having fun too. ⁓ actually it will help you will help you shift in your brain to where you're seeing the task in a completely different way you know and so inevitably you end up through the play you're deepening attachment with your kids ⁓ and it's helping your kids be more receptive and open to you but it also play reduces
could the cortisol level. So it makes their stress, ⁓ the stress chemicals go down, which means the kids are more likely to learn. mean, get this guys, this is what really helped me change. It helps them actually be more likely to learn and remember, you know, the limits that you're setting better and the skills that you're teaching them better. So they're more likely to able to do that task ⁓ on their own in the future without you because it is fun. Yeah. So basically bottom line, if we can use play when we use play, they're going to be happier.

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:8.238)
they're gonna learn the skill faster, they're gonna be more attached to you, and their stress levels are gonna go down. ⁓ So that's the hard signs of what happens when we can switch into play mode with our kids and why we're such big advocates for it. We've had people on our podcast about it. It is very, very powerful. Yeah, we have had some great voices. So if you wanna go back and look at, actually had the author of The Way of Play on, ⁓ Georgie Weisen Vincent, she was talking about it, but it's a lot of great guests.
But I love this example, Sarah, that you provided here is instead of demanding, pick up your toys now, which that was something I would have said early on, pick up your toys, come on, let's do it. Instead, invite the kids to play. Can the toy cars race back to the garage, right? When you do that, you know, when you do that, I know lots of you say, I know, but someone's gonna have the energy. I get that. But you do know when you do that, you get faster results, less conflict, and everybody's in a better mood. I wanna say, when we were talking about the brain chemistry,
we were talking about the kids, actually that's what happens in us too. We actually attach more to our kids. We lower our stress. So in those moments where sometimes, sometimes I couldn't do this, but sometimes I think, you know what, if I just start to play, I will feel better. And it ⁓ does. increases your joy, increases your energy, all that stuff. So, ⁓ and so that basically we want you to understand that play isn't losing. It's using the most effective tool for a child's brain. Okay. Now,
I want to talk about the rewiring that parents must do. So like, what's the ways that I had to rewire, you did Sarah, is that it is hard to let go of punishment because it feels effective in the short term. So it's hard to let go of that because it does seem quick. It seems like it gets the result quickly. Now I know many of you who've been with us for a long time, you're like, well, no, it doesn't because in the long term it creates a lot more problems. We totally agree, but in the short term,
I think our brain defaults to that because it says it gives me control quickly and it makes the kid do what I want. But you got to recognize the discomfort. It may feel like weakness to participate in something like just negotiating with the kid or collaborating or playing with them. It may feel like weakness. I remember Sarah, the first time this shifted for me, I remember we were driving home from some kind of...

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:27.618)
church thing we'd been at and it was late at night. I knew the kids were tired, but there were several things we wanted done before the kids went to bed. And ⁓ I was always a little anxious about bedtime. They were little and we'd been out too late. I'd be like, okay, I gotta make sure I assertively set the stage. I remember saying to the kids, listen, we go home, we don't have much time, so you can either do this or this. And I remember Abby piped up and said, well, what about this? ⁓ And it was like option C.
And my first one was like, no, I said option A or B. But then as I paused and thought about her option C was actually a lot better than my option A or B. It was better for them and better for us. And I thought, why would it hurt for me to say yes to option C? ⁓ And actually then I felt kind of proud. was like, it's really cool that Abby thought of that, that she came up with option C. She was only like five years old. And the fact that she could think of this third option and she didn't just get mad.
at the two I came up with or didn't just say, fine, I'll do A dad. Instead she was like, I think the best one would be option C. And then I was like, yeah, that's a really good one. And that was the first kind of awareness I had that we are teaching them these problem solving skills that I don't always know what the best options are. I came up with A and B, I just made them up, you know? And then she made up C and it was really like a collaboration between all the ideas. Yeah. And how great it is in those moments too, where you actually ⁓ are lending some of your power and control to them.
That is great, right? We want them to feel like they can enter the world, have some power, have some control, be able to problem solve, make decisions. So if we can kind of step out of that being a threatening thing to our authority, and just look at is this a healthy ⁓ place? Is this a great skill that they're building? Awesome, let's go for it. ⁓ And so what's really happening in these moments is not weakness. You're actually strengthening their long-term wiring in their brain.
You so goes back to the, you're actually teaching them these decision-making skills, these problem-solving skills. And you know, Dr. Dan Siegel, who does the interpersonal neurobiology, which we talked about back with Tina Payne Bryson, ⁓ repeated, he talks about how repeated co-regulation with kids ⁓ builds their prefrontal cortex. What we mean by that is these moments of conflict or these moments of, you know, where it looks like it's getting into this winning or losing thing, us against them, when we can actually.

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:45.848)
Connect, collaborate with them, ⁓ Co-create with them rather than having this winning and losing. Teach them decision making, empathy, regulation. All of those things can be taught in this moment if you just take that opportunity to do it. ⁓ And authoritarian control, what it does, it triggers fight or flight in our kids, you know? So when we don't collaborate and we just start doing the win-lose mentality, it actually causes our kids to go to the downstairs part of their brain. That's Dr. Siegel's
kind of verbiage and collaboration builds the upstairs part of the brain. So think of these like muscles, like when we start using our power against them, the kids amygdala and their fight or flight will get more ⁓ used and more exercised and strengthened, More wired to default. They're gonna fight against you and you're strengthening that part if that's their personality. ⁓ Or they might be just that, yes, whatever you say, child. And then you're strengthening.
the yes kid who says yes to authority all the time, even when it's not safe or even when they have something in them that goes, don't think I should be doing this. You're strengthening both all of that in a child, which isn't really the long-term goal, even for the compliant one, because I feel like I need to say that. People are like, oh, I don't want the who's going to fight against me. But you don't want the yes kid either. so actually want to be wiring their brain to default to that upstairs part. And just so you know, for the future of your kids,
them having that prefrontal cortex more wired to where they can think collaboratively, that's something that's gonna help them beat out AI and all of this automated stuff as an employee in the future. And that's what we're really excited for our kids is as our kids are able to listen to what their boss wants or what they're being asked to do, and then they can think of it and go, yeah, ⁓ I can totally do that. Or, I think this other way might be even better. ⁓ That's something a computer isn't gonna be able to do as effectively as them.
You know, so it's going to be something that sets our kids apart as employees or as entrepreneurs and all that kind of stuff. so that's another kind of bonus that I'm just adding in there. So the last, ⁓ I want to end with this kind of long-term, ⁓ you know, this long-term like ⁓ gift that we're trying to give our kids through this process is kids raised in collaborative connection focused homes, ⁓ see these outcomes. ⁓ One, they develop self-discipline and not just obedience, which is amazing.

Kyle And Sara Wester (25:9.046)
Two, they learn to make healthy choices ⁓ without external pressures. So they're not needing us there constantly watching over their shoulder to know what the best choice in a given moment is. And three, they experience their parents as allies instead of ⁓ adversaries, which is fantastic. And then there's these cool, really neat relationship outcomes that I know all of our listeners want to have, Sarah, is our kids will become more respectful, more trusting, and have less secrets.
⁓ They won't feel the need to hide from us. ⁓ And that's really a lot of times when you're not doing this early on, then you find teenagers who get really good at being secretive. ⁓ And it's really hard to get to their hearts because they've been so skilled at hiding aspects of them. ⁓ But also teens are more likely to choose alignment with the family, like joining with the family and the family values because they feel some ownership in having created them.
with you, know, which is really cool. Yeah, it's really cool because they feel like I helped create this. And the last part I want to say was parents gain peace ⁓ because they're no longer locked in existing win lose battles. Yeah. You know, wouldn't that feel great? Yep. To get out of these really bad in this place because we've been doing this long enough. It's really fun to actually see it in our family. And then with so many families ⁓ that you've worked with that we've worked with, but you in particular do a lot of coaching where
where it's like now we got story after story and family after family who is seeing this change through Well, and you saying that I just had a family in the other day who's they've got some teenagers and as I've been helping them, they originally came in with one problem with one kid and now they're realizing like what I'm teaching is gonna help them with both kids and now they're saying, I wish I would have known this back when they were little. ⁓ This would have been a game changer because we've now spent 15, 16 years doing it one way.
and that dance is really entrenched in our family. And you can still shift it. Yeah, you can shift it. man, if you're listening, your kids are ⁓ older. Hey, it's not too late. You can actually shift it. It's really fun. If your kids are younger, man, jump on. It's going to pay off. Well, on that, Sarah, I want to reassure parents who are listening that shifting ⁓ parenting, this parenting mindset from the win-lose type thinking is really hard. It ⁓ takes rewiring old beliefs. And so I want to give you this kind of big picture.

Kyle And Sara Wester (27:29.368)
Parenting isn't about big, it isn't about winning or losing. It's about building brains, about building character and building relationships that are gonna last a lifetime. So this week, notice the moments when you feel like you're losing as a parent. Ask yourself, what am I actually building here? What long-term gain is coming from the short-term discomfort? And we'd love to invite you.
to share these experiences you're having. If you ⁓ take this challenge on this week to notice this and to start shifting this mindset, we'd love to hear what that experience is like. Feel free to email me at kyle at artofraisinghumans.com. ⁓ Definitely rate, review this podcast, share it. If you know some families that are constantly getting in the win-lose scenarios, you've got brothers or sisters who have kids ⁓ and you're like, they could really send this to them. We wanna increase the reach of this. And once again, we've got some really great guests coming in the future.
So be on top of listening every week and definitely make sure you're subscribing and getting this updated each time. So we thank you so much for taking this moment to listen and to help your family be the family that you're really wanting to create, or we're collaborating instead of just competing and winning and losing. So we hope you have a wonderful Halloween and you're enjoying your fall.