Episode 180

Episode 180 Transcript:

Kyle And Sara Wester (26:52.706)
Are you currently in a moment where your kid is pulling away? Are you experiencing a child that seems to be withdrawing or shutting down or closing off? do you fear that will happen with one of your kids? Well, that is something that's going on all throughout our culture. Currently, I don't think it's only this time, but specifically ⁓ seeing a lot of this throughout. ⁓
Tulsa and then even hearing about it through parents throughout the world and we want to help you better understand the signs to look for like how do you know if it's just natural withdrawing that's super healthy or is it something more than that and should we go seek help or is there more we can do to to ⁓ help this situation turn around and become a more positive thing than something that's scary and negative so we are gonna give you six clear steps to take if you are experiencing that in your home that can help you
start to change these dynamics because I'm telling you, your kid desperately wants you to do it differently because they don't want to be alone. ⁓ So take a moment if you could, if you haven't already to pause ⁓ and rate and review and comment on the podcast that really helps us reach more families. ⁓ But other than that, if you're struggling with this in your home, ⁓ get ready to get some tools to help you change these dynamics in your family.

Kyle And Sara Wester (0:1.358)
Hello and welcome to the auto raising humans. I'm Kyle. Hi there. I'm Sarah. And you know, I think some of some of the most scariest moments for parents or the most confusing moments or the most worrying moment, Sarah, ⁓ is when one of your kids starts to pull away and becomes more withdrawn ⁓ from you and the family, less talkative, less open, right? ⁓ Maybe there's even that the moment that the parent remembers where there's been an argument or a conflict.
and the kid just goes in the room and closes their door and barely gives one word responses. ⁓ Just maybe even is compliant to some extent, meaning like they just say, yes, I'll do that. But they ⁓ just aren't really opening up. And then that leads to a bunch of school rides home where the kid is like, yeah, everything was fine. And they just want to disengage, listen to music or ⁓ talk to friends or something, but they don't want to talk to you. Yeah. I think we have the times where
There's those small pullaways that are concerning. ⁓ And then I think you really get concerned as a parent when you're noticing a pattern, you're noticing them withdraw for a longer, deeper.
you know, it doesn't feel like, okay, sometimes at first you're okay, they're just having a moment. They'll come back. This is just a season. then it gets really scary when you things have shifted. Yeah. And your child has pulled away. Yeah. And I think it's easy to start to panic and wonder, am I losing them? Are they okay? Did I do something wrong? I mean, do they hate me?
You know, like you, I'm sure you'd immediately start going, what did I do? How did I, how come they dislike me so much? You know, it'd be really easy to start taking first. stories in your head, whatever those, maybe those stories are okay. Maybe those stories are really dark and scary, but you try to make meaning of what's happening in your relationship. Cause you had this little kid who was like, play with me, be with me, talking to you all the time. And now there's just a whole lot of silence and empty space. Yeah. Yeah. And a whole lot of seemingly prioritizing other voices than yours, you know, maybe they're listening to other people or maybe

Kyle And Sara Wester (1:57.952)
maybe even sometimes Sarah, I've heard parents report the kid seems to be more themselves when they're with their friends or when they're with ⁓ other families, but when they're with me, they're closed off and withdrawn. And so think the big question is that we kind of want to address today is how do you know if your child is just growing up? Like this is just a natural part of adolescence ⁓ or if there's actually.
⁓ pulling away because of some disconnection or stress or hurt or something's happened to the relationship. Like how do you read the difference? Yeah, and that's a really important difference because there's
that piece you're, you're hoping that distance is just, it's developmental. We've all heard that before. ⁓ It's fine. But then there's a party that goes, is it fine? Are we okay? I feel like this is too much and I miss them. Yeah. So it's good. We're going to walk through some of the, those decisions and thought processes. let's talk about, first of all, it is natural. There is a part of developmental growth and independence. You at the ages of 12 to 18, ⁓ Eric Erickson would say, ⁓ the stage of psychosocial development that they're in is identity forming.
They're trying to figure out who they are. They're trying to figure out who they are separate from you. ⁓ So all of that's really important. Plus also you've heard, I'm sure every listeners heard us say, if not hearing it throughout society, it's pretty common now. Their prefrontal cortex is not fully formed. So they're actually a lot of time in those teenage years, they're moving back to the limbic system, the emotional center of their brain, where they're actually pulling away a lot.
because they do feel misunderstood, they do feel disconnected, and that's actually part of them trying to figure out their place in this world. Like, who are their people? ⁓ And all that's healthy. You want them to some extent to be pulling away in a natural way, withdrawing on occasion, because if they don't do that, they're never gonna figure out who they are separate from the family unit. Yeah, because there's a part of them... ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (3:50.734)
We don't talk about this, right? There's not like a sit down, hey, you know, but there's a part of them that's very, very, very aware and very concerned about the fact that they're heading out there and they have to be a whole person out in the world. I mean, we were like, sure, we're like, hey, at 18, you're going to college or you're moving out or something like that, but we don't really talk, you know, that whole piece of them that has to develop who they are.
they have to figure that out. And the way they need to do that is by stepping back, right? Cause if you're always there, then they're not doing it on their own and they're testing the waters. I'm going to try to do this on my own. I'm going to try to do that on my own. What does it feel like? I remember our daughter, even just when she was here by herself waiting for a ride, we took off some to go to something else and, it was just sort of this like, Oh, I'm going to turn on some music. What do I listen to it in a house by myself? Like she's listening to it in her room, it's just different.
is this this is my this is this whole space yeah I have access to the whole space it's such a small little thing but but it's but I thought that was such a great example of that awareness she was able to give words to it but but our kids that's a tiny little thing but they're hitting those things all the time like I need to practice this and I need to practice this and and their brain is working really really hard to be ⁓
who they are apart from us because they have to be. Well, even as you described them, I'm betting every listener had that moment as a kid. I remember that feeling when you left home alone and it is so different, you know, it is kind of scary, but it's also kind of exciting because you're kind of like, oh, nobody's like, no one's watching me. I get to like make my own choices. If I wanted to walk in kitchen right now, I could just go make some food right now. I could do whatever we have. There is this sense of freedom that it's not, it's not like it's, it's, like they have more freedom.
But it does feel more freeing ⁓ for me to go. How do I what do I want to do with the space? What do I want to do with my time? Because typically when parents are around they're like, hey, what are you up to? What are you doing? What's going on? Yeah, do I like silence? Do I like music? Yeah, do I like the lights on? I like the lights off? And it's small but even at school, even the times they're with their friends, they're still doing that one way. But everywhere they go, they're having to figure that out in a different way when we're not there because we were always there. Yeah.

Kyle And Sara Wester (6:0.566)
Yeah. So we want to just emphasize first, it is developmentally appropriate and it doesn't always mean something's wrong, that it can, it can be, and probably many times is very healthy ⁓ and necessary, but ⁓ it's important to have the, know, that, that, that a spidey sense to some extent to be watching.
when is it getting to a place where it might be a problem? You where it isn't, it is kind of above and beyond. And I think sometimes parents do miss that. They don't notice that. And then by the time they help from, from counselors or something like that, it's been going on for a long time. And ⁓ what can happen there is sometimes the kid did initially pull away and they assumed that mom and dad would pursue them. You know, but then mom and dad maybe didn't cause mom and dad thought their job was to just leave them alone. And then,
the kids started thinking, well, maybe this time is about me being alone. Maybe this is a time I don't need them. I don't want them. I don't want them around. They're annoying. Right. And so, so we really want you just to have ⁓ not, in a hyper vigilant way, but to be watching for a few things. And so first thing I'd be watching for is disconnection in the relationship. Like sometimes kids pull away, not just to individuate, not just to form their identity, but because they actually don't feel safe, ⁓ seen or understood in the relationship with the parents. ⁓
Yeah, and that's so important because, ⁓ you know, the whole, we've talked about before, but if they've made mistakes and you're coming down hard on them, then they're going to be afraid to be vulnerable to you because they are mature.
you know, that little kid would come up and be like, Yes, eventually I ate five cookies, you know, and they weren't supposed to. But as they get older, they're kind of like, ⁓ you're gonna be disappointed in me, you're gonna be sad, you're gonna be mad, I'm gonna get punished. All those things, they that relationships important, they don't want to be punished. So they're not going to risk it. So they hide that stuff. they feel more and more, got to tuck this away, and I got to tuck that away. And you don't want to see that part of you only want to see this part of me. remember that last time I told you that story about that thing with my friend, and you got

Kyle And Sara Wester (8:0.656)
really mad about it. And so I just won't tell you those stories anymore. Even like that one time I asked for help with my teacher and then you blew it out and made it a huge deal. then or you took over. Yes. Yeah. So I'm just going to stop asking. And they're trying to work things out. And if we take over, then they can't. So they'd rather not come to us. And that's so hard because we naturally take over. Yeah. So here are some signs to be looking for for relational disconnection. Number one is they stop sharing feelings or stories.
You know, so if they're a kid who in general would share those pretty naturally, some kids do more than others. ⁓ But if you're just sensing this lack of openness, you know, so, maybe some kids naturally, you would need to be curious and ask some questions, but eventually it would start coming out. But if they're seemingly withholding, you know, pulling back, they're not initiating ever, you know, then I might start going, something might be going on here. Right. ⁓ So number two would be they seem irritated by your presence more often. Yeah.
You know, ⁓ you walk in the room and you can see they're tensing up or they're annoyed that you're there. They're really short with you all the time. Yep. ⁓ Those are all just red flags for the relationship. ⁓ This is not developmental.
this is something is broken in our relationship and it's my job. Cause if I care about having a relationship with them later, it's not, well, they need to shape up. need to do, I mean, you can, you can say that, but you're probably going to not have much of a relationship later. But if you're, our goal is I want a long-term relationship. So I am going to do this work to be a safe parent to
⁓ approach them, ⁓ to listen to them, and build that relationship. I'm gonna take that on and do that work. Yeah, and then the third one is they're spending a lot more time with peers. ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (9:48.460)
but avoid time with you. ⁓ So it's natural for them to wanna spend more time with peers as they're kind of finding out who they are, but it doesn't have to be ⁓ as a resistance to spending time with you. So if they're saying like, ⁓ no, I don't wanna spend time with you, I only wanna spend time with friends, that's definitely a good sign that there's something wrong with the relationship.
Okay. And then another aspect that you'd be looking for and concerned about is ⁓ the stress responses. Like, are they having big emotions? Is there a lot of withdrawal or shutting down may signal that their nervous system is overwhelmed, you know, that they keep kind of going down into the brainstem or into the limbic system. And they're definitely withdrawing a lot more because they somehow are overwhelmed with maybe anxiety, ⁓ shame, depression, those kinds of things. Yeah. This is different than the relationship.
I use see this a lot. is the society is seeing this a lot right now. ⁓ I'm sure everyone's had to have read things about this, but it's really important to be aware of that when when they're on overload, there's so much pressure. There's so much coming at them all the time.
And so this retreating, ⁓ there can be this retreating into yourself just to try to manage all the noise all the time. Yeah. All the pressure that they feel. Yeah. And then the last one is ⁓ you just see some regular mental health red flags like persistent withdrawal, changes in sleep and appetite, a loss of interest in activities that they used to typically enjoy, you know, ⁓ irritability or self critical talk. Like they're definitely putting themselves down a lot, but these things can point in our signs to a kid struggling with anxiety or depression.
⁓ and may need some professional support. Right, so we want to definitely toss that out there because there's this whole spectrum of, they're individuating, ⁓ something's broken our relationship, ⁓ there's some something big going on here.

Kyle And Sara Wester (11:38.758)
And the sooner you intervene, the sooner you reach out and get some help, some outside help, ⁓ you know, the better versus letting that go for a long time ⁓ and having some really big. ⁓ And I think Sarah losses when these things are happening, there can be some common parent reactions, you know, like the first one is fear and panic, you know, like they're thinking, I'm losing my kid, like my kid. mean, we, none of us wants to lose our kids. I'm losing my kid. And what that does though, is that.
fear and panic leads to parents gripping and trying to get control right like they actually can do things that actually start hurting the relationship more you know so they start being very demanding like come down and spend time with us now you know and the kids like ⁓ forced family nights exactly when something else is really going on is really important in that child's life and yeah yeah we mean well and
Like you said, love them. We want to spend time with them. We don't want to lose them. We can see that end in sight and it's really, really hard for us. But, but notice that if that's coming up, notice that combination. When you start to panic and get afraid, you will start to grip and want control more. definitely be aware of that. Second thing is over monitoring them. Like all of a sudden then you're going to get hyper vigilant by checking their phone all the time, prying or trying to force conversation from them, right? Which once again can cause kids to
want to pull away even more because they're like dang like I was just like trying to find out who I am and you're like all in my business so much right thinking I'm all types of bad things and they're trying to find out who you who they are so then if you're in there then they can't do that ⁓ it's a hard time guys it's really hard yeah yeah but I'd say resist that I once again I understand don't fall for it there are times where scary things are going on right
But most of the time that's not the case. And the kid will feel very intruded upon and they'll get the message you do not trust them. And then they will be like, fine, if you don't trust me, then why would I want to spend time with you? know, like really.

Kyle And Sara Wester (13:42.700)
Pursuing the relationship is much more healthy than trying to go behind their backs. mean, Sarah, I even had one one family where they were secretly putting, ⁓ you know, things to this was before they had the ability on the phone. Yeah, they put it on the car like tracking. And I think they might even done that even though they had the ability to track on the phone, but the kid would then routinely just leave the phone somewhere. So so was like, I'm like, the more you do this, the more that the kid was just thinking of all these innovative ways to not be tracked, you know, like, eventually, you have to be able to repair that relationship.
⁓ Yeah, the third one is whenever you're now giving conditional responses kids may feel our love only shows up when they're close or they're quote-unquote happy and I've heard kids say this that mom and dad just want me to be happy so I'll act happy ⁓ and then they'll give me the things I want right ⁓ and this is gonna normally backfire because it just causes them to retreat even more because they feel a little bit like
Like remember, this is that time when they're trying to figure out who they are. They're trying to believe they're loved for who they are. But then it's like, no, actually, think good things come to me when I act good. Yeah. You know? when I... know what their parents want to see. So they're just like, OK. I'll just play the I'll put on the mask. I'll play the game. I'll do what I know. But then they want to get away so they can just take off the mask and stop.
performing, you know, doing the things that you want them to do. And sometimes, sometimes, you know, being a teenager is messy. And if you can't accept them in the mess, then they're like, okay, I've got to go away for the mess. And yeah. So, so if you're in this situation and you've got a kid who has been withdrawing more ⁓ and you're, you're concerned and you want to repair that relationship, here are the six things, the six steps we would encourage you to take. Okay. So number one is I've got to stay calm and grounded. What do I mean by that? It's, ⁓
I've got to regulate that fear, that anxiety that says, ⁓ need the kid to make me feel better. I need the kid to change this so I don't feel like I'm messing up as a parent. ⁓ This moment isn't about you. ⁓ It's about you pursuing their heart, you letting ⁓ them know that you are with them. They're not alone. So I wanna make sure I'm calming the storm in me so then I can help them calm the storm in them. ⁓

Kyle And Sara Wester (16:0.948)
Okay, number two is I want to respect their space ⁓ while staying available, you know, and I love it when parents are willing to do this when they when they you know, you and I definitely don't like locks on the door, you know, like we would never I don't really enjoy that when kids have locks on their doors and they're locking the door and they're telling their parents they can't come in. ⁓
I think that's a step too far. ⁓ I think it's better to have healthy boundaries where when the door is closed, we do what we would want them to do, which is just to knock on the door. Yeah. Going back to that, how would I like to be treated? And I'm modeling that for them. So if their door is closed, I knock, I wait for a response. And yeah, and I think about their space and...
how I want my space treated. Yeah. So, so basically I'm just letting them know I'm there and I want to come in and I'm just giving them the opportunity to say, come in. Right. ⁓ And, what, if this, if you're doing this and the kid is saying, they don't want you to come in or don't come in, that's a really good sign to me that there's something wrong with the relationship. Right. The kid doesn't trust that my presence is going to bring something good. Okay. Number three, connect before you correct. So I want to lead with relationship, not control. So if I am, let's say that
happens the kid tells me not to come in the room and I'm like ⁓ okay I don't want this this wasn't the intent I need to go back and think I need to make sure I connect with with that kid before I have this conversation yeah about here's what I'm expecting when I knock on the door ⁓ if I feel like I need to come in I'm gonna come in but I am giving you a moment to invite me in okay ⁓ in the same way if you came to my room you know son or daughter
I might say, me a moment, but it's not gonna be, no, don't come in. ⁓ It might be, just give me a second and then you can come in. ⁓ The door isn't there to stop us from coming in. It's there to give us an opportunity to invite the other person in to respect that space. ⁓ And anytime, we know teenagers are gonna mess up. They're gonna say things that are hurtful or they're gonna just really mess up. ⁓ And we immediately wanna jump on that. see it, like don't talk to your sister that way or something like that, but we really need to start with,

Kyle And Sara Wester (18:4.848)
We can just ingrain it into our minds. Start with connection first. ⁓ Connect with them.
and then move into the guidance part. Yep. And that even I'm thinking, you know, this leads into step four, Sarah, along with that as real common thing as teenagers start to pull away our kids in general. Like I said, it becomes this standard one liner where how was your day? Fine. How did I go? Fine. Right. And then parents will get frustrated. I know I have felt that I'm like, stop telling me fine. Like I want an answer. Like give me more words, you know, but all that's going to do is cause the kid to be less likely, right? To do so instead ⁓ the step four be name it to tame it.
That's something we've mentioned before in podcasts. Name it. So you might say something like, you seem overwhelmed or you seemed like the day's been difficult. Okay. ⁓ you want to talk about it later over dinner, you know, or like, would like to discuss this later on after dinner or, or let's take a walk later. I'd to talk to you about it. Right. So in that moment, do you see how I'm respecting that boundary they put there? ⁓ I'm not pushing it. I'm not like trying to make them talk.
But I am also saying, I still want to pursue it. ⁓ So then I'm saying, I'd like to do it at this different time. And typically, the kid is responsive to that. Most kids that we work with, they're pretty receptive to that. They just want the parent to hear that initial no, ⁓ but they don't want them to accept it as that's not no forever. ⁓ It's just no for now. It's also inviting them, giving them some control. We have so much control. I want to talk. I want to talk right now. You will talk to me right now type thing, which nobody likes. And so it's just saying,
it's it's that okay, we're not going to enter into a power struggle here. That's fine. I can if I asked you to talk and you're like, Hey, not now. Now, we would find a different time and I wouldn't think much of it. I'd like, Okay, whatever. You've got a lot on your mind. You're stressed. We'll talk later. And so there's a piece of that we just carry into this relationship to we say, Okay, they're not in a space right now. That's I understand that I know what that feels like. Yeah, you know, I can name it I can say something about it. And we can just reconnect later and give

Kyle And Sara Wester (20:2.672)
them that sense of control, giving them that, wow, you have power in this and you know, because they can carry that into another relationship and say, now right now, I'll talk later or whatever it might be. You're just guiding all that and teaching them those skills. And then the fifth step is make sure you're showing them unconditional love. It's very important that this time is the kids are pulling away. There really is this
Question that they're kind of asking, you know, am I worth pursuing? You know when I you know I think we've all done that in relationships where if I act like a jerk or I push you away or I Withdraw, will you go after me? I mean that happens in marriages all the time where a couple's had a fight and one goes to sleep on the couch and Like is the other one gonna come check on me? You know So like all those kind of things happen in all relationship showing the kid unconditional love that even when they're upset or even when we're upset I'm not going anywhere
I'm gonna continue loving you, you know? Even when you push me away, I will continue to love you and I will continue to pursue you. I always love you. I'm always here. You are always lovable. Yeah. Very, very powerful messages. We can't send our kids enough ⁓ times those messages and ⁓ the way it helps them feel safe to be able to stay in relationship with us through these really hard teen years. Yeah. Just built on that. It's really powerful.
And the sixth one is invest in small, consistent touch points. know, touch points are basically moments where you can connect with them, right? So that may be shared jokes, ⁓ late night snacks, taking a walk together, or even letting them teach you something they love, like teaching you how to play a video game or teaching you how to bake something they like to bake, right? ⁓ Finding you got to be a little creative sometimes, right? Because their, their, ⁓ their time is limited. Many times as they're getting older, they're busier with more things.
And then plus they're needing this time to withdraw and kind of find out who they are. So find those touch points, find creative ways to just connect with them and be consistent and intentional about it. ⁓ Yeah. And funny memes. mean, there's all kinds of tiny things you Lots of kids like that. Yeah. The texting, the memes, the sharing, you know, I might just find a funny video and be like, look at this, you know. So it can be really tiny things to the bigger things like

Kyle And Sara Wester (22:17.418)
a shared movie or concert or cooking something or, know, going into their world and letting them show you their world. Cause as they're individuating, they will, they'll develop these little pockets of who they are. And it's exciting and it's fun. ⁓ And you want to say, Hey, can I witness this? Can I be a part of this? ⁓ And I hear that a lot from teenagers, man. They'll, say there's these things they want their parents to know about them, but they feel like their parents just won't be interested. Yeah. They'd like, that's not my thing. That's your thing. You know, or even like I remember
this one kid I was helping years ago who when he would watch a show felt like his mom would would be upset because there might be a word here or there that the mom was upset about and the kid to be like I hear these words all the time at school ⁓ I just wanted you to watch the show and instead the parent was judging or criticizing the show so the kids like I don't want to watch I'll just watch the show without you like what is ⁓ what I'd rather do it with you right so just even like the kids will say I want them to be there because I think it's funny I want them to see what I think is funny you know
Stay awake. Yes, exactly. Yes. ⁓ Don't get on your phone. Yes ⁓ Stay engaged when you're doing this thing with them So I just want to give our audience a few practical take of takeaways Sarah. Number one is ⁓ normal normalize the separation
pulling away is a part of growing up. ⁓ I think having that conversation with your kid is very helpful, right? So instead of you just knowing it or thinking it, just talk to them about it. Like this is a normal part of growing up. Okay. Number two, watch for patterns. So notice if withdrawal is consistent and accompanied by mood, appetite, or behavior changes. So ⁓ just be observant. You don't need to be hyper vigilant, but just watch for some of the patterns changing, right?
Number three, lead with connection. So empathize and respect their space while keeping the door open. So remember that that the connection is always going to be helpful ⁓ in this journey. And that's the kid doesn't want to do life alone. The kid is scared to death. That's what they're going to do. So always ⁓ lead with connection.

Kyle And Sara Wester (24:20.534)
and having empathy that this time in their life is difficult. It is hard. ⁓ Some things that you'd be like, that's a big deal to you. Like ⁓ it may not to us, but remember when they were little, that was like that too. There was these moments where, you know, that thing breaking that toy, we can just buy another one. But to that kid, that was a very, so like having some empathy about that instead of judging it being critical about it is really going to lead to better connection. Let them be their own person. They're not going to think and feel like you. So.
Just know that, don't be surprised when they have a different opinion, a different thought, a different feeling than you would in a given situation. then the number four is hold the long-term view. ⁓ Even when it feels personal, remember ⁓ they're practicing independence and they're not rejecting your love, okay? So hold that long-term view that this is ⁓ part of them growing up. It's not a rejection of you and your love for them, but it's them actually trying to find out who they are.
⁓ So that's really important and we want to leave you with some encouraging thoughts So ⁓ the thought we had here was just remember this your child Pulling away doesn't mean they're leaving your heart It means they're learning how to grow and you can be their safe place through it all and I know everyone listening this
I know you want to be that safe place. So I hope this podcast episode really helped you understand ⁓ one, how not to take it personal to see it differently, but also to believe and trust that they need you during this time. They do even when they're pushing away, they do. And so trust that and know that when you, if you get through this time and you're able to consistently pursue them and understand them, seek that connection, ⁓ they will remember it. And I think if you look back at your childhood, if you didn't have that, I bet you wish you did.
But if you did, you can look back and go, now that I look back, I think my parents were actually trying to love me. And I just took it as, you know, like, leave me alone, right? And your perception as a kid was kind of skewed, you know? So I hope this encourages you and helps you know what to do if you're in this situation. Definitely share this episode with families you feel like it'd be helpful to, ⁓ because this is going on in our society. A lot of kids are going through this now, and we want to give you the tools to help you through it. So we hope you have a great day, and thank you for listening.