Episode 201

It can be so scary as a parent when you are trying to talk with your teenager or any of your kids and they start to shut down and they start to withdraw and you're trying so hard to desperately ⁓ just have a conversation sometimes about simple things but sometimes about heavy things ⁓ and you're getting nothing back and it just seems like your kid continues to pull away further and further and we know that fear can pop up ⁓ in your heart as a parent of I'm losing my kid.
⁓ I'm this relationship is it is it forever broken? Well today we want to tell you it isn't and there are steps you can do today to start bridging that divide that gap to where you can start having a relationship that that is important that is necessary for your kid because it's really important for your kid to know that they are safe and can open up to you because ⁓ You're their mom or dad and I we are very passionate to believe that you play a huge part
in their life from the teenage years, mean, small teenage all the way up. So today we're gonna hit upon five clear steps you can be taking today and also look at the ways in which we do things that kind of make it really hard for kids to trust us. And ⁓ because we do play a big, big role on how that relationship has formed over time. And this is gonna be one of a two-part series we're gonna be talking more about communication. also ⁓ we're gonna do that today and then dive into more next week. So if you haven't already, take a moment to.
pause and to comment, review. We love to hear your feedback. I love the five star reviews and hearing how this is helping your family. And we just love to get some, you know, if you want to leave comments or send me ⁓ just anecdotal stuff that's going on, that's so encouraging. ⁓ You can reach out to me also, if you're wanting more help on this at kyle at art of raising humans.com, email me and ⁓ we'll set up a time to chat about how we could possibly help you ⁓ and your family. So ⁓ without further ado, ⁓ sit back.
take a moment to get these five clear steps on how to change these dynamics.

Kyle Wester (0:0.270)
Welcome to the Art of Raising Humans, I'm Kyle. Hi there, I am Sarah. And you know, Sarah, wanted to, you and I have been talking a lot about this, how lately there's a lot of different parents that have been seeking help and it's been around a particular topic that is becoming more and more of an issue. And I think part of it is, possibly it's grown out of somewhat of the isolation that may have happened with COVID, right? And some of these kids maybe getting more more used to pulling away.
But for whatever the reason is, I think this has happened all throughout generations, but it seems like more and more we're seeing this, there's a real difficulty that parents running into and communicating with their kids and specifically teens, right? But also even with their little kids. Like a lot of when I'm telling them, hey, it's really important to talk to your kids about this subject or learn how to follow up about that conflict. They feel like lots of times they're getting stonewalled or don't know how to do it because the kid is shutting down, right?
And so we wanted to spend a couple weeks doing two specific topics about that. Yeah, that are all connected because there's kind of a theme to it. As we were talking about it, we were noticing this theme and I think parents, you feel lost in those moments. ⁓ You're trying and maybe even you're shifting things and you're working so hard ⁓ and then you're met with this resistance or...
just kind of ghosting. ⁓ know, I can't seem to get through and I want to have these important conversations. So today we're going to talk specifically about teens and how to do that with teens. But the next week we're going to talk about how to start this way early. You know, how to start this way early to where this kind of communication is really important. And you know, Sarah, our focus is always for all our listeners is change begins with us. This isn't necessarily there'll be some ways to help your kid open up, but it really is about what are we doing?
and what have we done that's kind of contributed to this lack of openness. once you understand that, then you go, ⁓ it's not about blame. It's about just owning, taking responsibility for the part I've played in it. ⁓ And then once I do that, that's really helpful to the kid to see that. But then now you have the power to change the dance that's been going on. Yeah, yeah. I actually, find it encouraging. I find it hard. You know, you have that parenting moment where you think, where you realize,

Kyle Wester (2:15.788)
I've been doing this wrong. I'm sabotaging the thing I'm trying to build with my child. I want this long lasting relationship and I'm doing this and I don't know. I didn't realize I was hurting the thing I was trying ⁓ to get. ⁓ And so as hard as that is to hear, then the shift becomes, ⁓ now I'm in path. Now I know the tools. Now I know the skills and I can shift how I'm doing it to go get what I want to reach that goal. So ⁓ it's hard at the same time. It's kind of encouraging to feel like you
it's in your hands, you can do something, you're not just sidelined. Yeah, so I would encourage you as a single parent or if you have a spouse and you're raising the kids together to really listen to these next two if communication is an issue, if helping your kid open up and be able to discuss hard topics because if you can't do it now,
It's gonna be impossible when they're adults, you know, because it's just even more difficult then. And we're seeing a lot of kids, and we talked about this in the previous podcast, just completely pulling away. And so we thought, man, let's really drill down on this because I know this is our heart. We wanna do everything we can to make sure we're communicating well with our kids about all types of topics, you know, from really hard ones, whether it's like faith or sex or politics, ⁓ just even just what they wanna wear and what they like. Just having ⁓ these deeper discussions.
that are healthy, are us connecting and becoming closer. ⁓ But before we do that, as we jump into, want to, a few ⁓ kind of just procedural things or whatever's going on in the future of our podcast, wanted to share with you guys one, we do have another date that Tina Payne Bryson will be coming in April to Riverfield. ⁓ Back in January, we had a date, but I'm glad we moved it ⁓ because it snowed and it was a lot of snow and that would have made the event impossible anyway. So.
It's really cool that we've got this coming up in April. It's currently April 13th. And so if anything changes there, I'll let you know, but we'll give more details as those arise. But another exciting thing is this week, Sarah and I, we record these a few weeks in advance, but this next week, we will be flying out to San Diego and we will go to the Whole Brain Child 2.0 Conference where we'll get to spend time with Dr. Siegel and Tina Payne-Briesson and just hearing about all their new brain research.

Kyle Wester (4:26.858)
about kids. we're going to be, ⁓ I think we're going to do some live stuff maybe on Instagram and Facebook and definitely doing some posts about what we're learning. You know, so if you're not following us on those definitely do because we want to make sure we're putting information out on there. And if we hear exciting things right in the conference, we'll throw it out there. We'll make a video about it and we'd love to have your interaction with that. Okay, so let's dive into it, Sarah. So today we're talking about why teens shut down after conflict. I mean, I've been seeing this a lot, seeing this a lot where I'm like, ⁓ I can
I can talk to the kid when I'm talking to the kid one-on-one, but then the parent tells me the kid just shuts down, right? And I try to tell them, obviously I, as a counselor with them, have a different relationship with their kid. I don't have the history. I don't have the baggage. Obviously there's some skills I have too, but inevitably I can't be the one constantly doing that. I want the parent to know how to do that. So ⁓ basically here's the moment we feel like a lot of parents are expressing that they're currently in. ⁓ They're saying things like, they want repair.
they want to talk it through, they want to do it differently than they were taught, but instead they're just getting silence. ⁓ You know, they're getting one word answers. If you're listening, you know, if you're in this, they're getting shrugs, they're getting closed doors, or they agree in the moment, this can be really infuriating because they can agree in the moment ⁓ and then there's no follow up. So it's like the kid will say, yeah, I'll do that. And then the kid doesn't do any of Right. ⁓ And this is one of the most discouraging parenting moments that we're hearing from a lot of parents. I know
⁓ I can imagine when I'm seeing them in it, Sarah, it's really discouraging, really frustrating, especially when you as a parent are trying to grow. You're like, I'm reading books, I'm trying to change, right? They're trying to do better and they're wondering why won't their kid meet them halfway, ⁓ right? Okay, and so we wanna just normalize this and I hope if there's nothing else you get from today's podcast, it is this understanding of what is happening, that your kid's shutdown is not rejection, it's just protection.
Yeah, I think that's really, really, really powerful because it shifts everything for a parent. ⁓ You you need to be in a mindset that's going to help you and help your child in this situation. So I think that I love that reframe to go, okay, they're in protection mode. What's happening right now is protection mode because it does immediately feel like rejection or it can feel, you know, your brain starts spiraling with all the things. And so it's nice to know, okay, I just need to look at this as they're protecting themselves. ⁓ So now what? ⁓

Kyle Wester (6:54.902)
And so we want to talk about what's actually happening there. So you have a better understanding of what is going on when the kid is in protection mode, right? I mean, first of all, and we've mentioned this before in other podcasts, their nervous system is still very active. ⁓ After the conflicts that you have with your kids, their nervous system often stays in that fight, flight or freeze kind of threat mode. And talking, I know this sounds weird, maybe, I mean, maybe you understand, but talking feels unsafe.
You know, they don't know where it's gonna go. They don't trust that it's gonna be helpful. It can be overwhelming or even exposing, ⁓ you know, to talk about things they don't necessarily feel comfortable talking about. And so their silence, ⁓ if you can think of this, their silence equals regulation attempt, not defiance. They're just trying to get back. Think about in your marriage. I know this has happened before with us, honey. Completely. Yeah, maybe there's a discussion that's really sensitive. That's what I was thinking. If you can...
If it's hard to imagine with your child, just imagine any relationship you've had where you felt like you couldn't engage after a conflict or in the middle of that you needed to pull back, you needed to shut down or you were just agreeing but it's almost like my brain hasn't actually had enough time to really think through this. So it feels safe from the moment just to agree but you're really not there yet and it can take a lot longer than we think to get to a space to be able to actually feel like you can engage it. And most of the time in that case,
We don't have a power dynamic necessarily. Maybe you've had it with your boss or something, but remember with our children, there's also that added element of a power dynamic happening as well. And if we're being honest as parents, even though you and I have never used punishment, we've never threatened to hit our kids or put them in timeout, any kind of stuff. ⁓ But even our kids ⁓ will admit that it might be throughout the years, there's been a raised voice that sounded very disapproving or very upset. Yeah. And, or
I can be prone to a good old fashioned lecture. ⁓ It can go on for a long time. ⁓ And even though I think I'm doing it for their benefit, it is me kind of throwing up all of my baggage on them, all of my fears on them. And it becomes very personal to them. It does look like if I were to record it, if I were to record it, it probably looks like a personal attack on them. ⁓ And they don't want to participate in that. Right. And just think of the disapproval that can come off in our voices.

Kyle Wester (9:15.682)
the little bit of guilt or shame in our look or in our tone. And as much as maybe we always try not to do that, you know, I'm sure a lot of us, that's not, I'm gonna go and do this. ⁓ It slips in there. We revert back to those. ⁓ we, know, this, cause we're also often in our emotional part of our brain. So we're not necessarily always showing up as our best selves and those things can slip in. And that has repercussions. ⁓ And that's not the...
child's fault, know, it's not the teen's fault. It's, you know, we've had these times where their brain has learned, ooh, but you might disconnect from me. Or you might throw some, you know, shame or guilt on me in this moment. Well, you said disconnect. I'd say reject. You might reject me. This conversation might lead to you, you know, you with your facial expression, maybe you'll say it verbally, but that you don't really like me and that you, you, your face says you almost find me disgusting or whatever. And what it says is for that moment, I'm not lovable to a child.
Until I'm this or that for you. I'm not level. ⁓ And then I think typically there's no responsibility on the parents part taken either It's typically blame and so for the most part the kids ⁓ the kid is saying I don't think this is gonna go anywhere good ⁓ And we've all been there come on you've all been there If I could just not be horrible, but even though we haven't done those techniques
we have seen at times our kids be reticent to have those conversations, but I remember as a kid, in my house there was spanking. You might get slapped, you might get yelled at. And I definitely was hesitant to have any conversation with my parents that might lead to something like that, because you never knew what you might say that might upset them, and then them get really mad, right? Okay, so number one, we gotta know that their nervous system is still very active. Number two, teens are wired for self-protection, not explanation, okay? Like,
kids brains and we'll talk more we're going to learn so much more about this at the Whole Brain Child Tube 1.0 conference but you know their brain starts to move down into the brain stem into that fight flight or freeze so in the conversation it's moving down it's not moving up and when dysregulated ⁓ language goes offline or your ability I mean think about it when you start getting mad I know I've gotten really mad playing soccer on a soccer field and it's hard to put together your thoughts in a coherent way you end up just getting really angry and saying stupid stuff you know

Kyle Wester (11:33.473)
Yeah, I think we all have had those moments where you can feel very dysregulated. I mean, it might be grief, might be fear, you know, name it, and you just you find it harder to put your thoughts together to really ⁓ and that's where we get that, man, I just thought of the perfect thing to say, why didn't I think and it's because you're not in the space to come up with that. And our children, as much as we still struggle with that, our kids so much more, that's where they are. ⁓ So it's much harder for them.
Yeah, and many times I hear, Sarah, the kids want us to take a break. Like, you know, the kids, I'm helping our own kids. Like, I wish we'd just pause ⁓ and just come back because they are like, it doesn't go well. It doesn't go well. But we kind of just want to keep insisting on it. And we start asking questions way too soon. ⁓ When it starts to look like pressure or like an interrogation. ⁓ And this is why questions like, let's talk about what happened or what could you do differently next time ⁓ often backfires. It often leads to the kids shutting down. Okay.
And this is where we got to be honest. Step, part three of this is past patterns ⁓ still live in the room. Okay. Like you can't deny what's gone on in the past, especially, it's especially important to remember that parents, when you're trying to change from control to connection, ⁓ the kid doesn't trust this. The kid doesn't know that's what's happening. You know, the kid's like, okay, this is some new way that they're like, cause the kid hasn't seen it work, right? So that the kids don't trust that the change ⁓ is, going to happen.
or even if it is happening, you're not gonna stick with it. And it's not even intentional because remember the brain is kind of based on patterns. So ⁓ it goes, we've been on this before and this is how it went. So if you're trying to change and they're going, wait, what? ⁓ There's a different pattern? No, there's not. I can't believe there's gonna be a different pattern. I can't believe they're gonna start blaming me again. And it's not even intentional. That's how their brain is just functioning. So it's not there.
They're not actively so just to give you a picture into their perspective. They're thinking is this a trap? Are they trying to trick me? Will I get in trouble if I'm actually honest with you ⁓ and that's a big one, right? They're assuming yes. Imagine going to your boss. mean how much would you be thinking I really messed that up? Yeah. Do I say something? Do I hope my boss doesn't know this? Am I really gonna own? could I mean

Kyle Wester (13:50.626)
Consequences are here. Yeah. Yeah, like everyone has told me if you go to the boss and tell him the truth the boss is gonna blame you or the boss Yeah, ⁓ are they actually safe now or they just calm today, right? So maybe today they're in a good mood But then they're drop I what you're saying that and that's that's why it's so scary because they want it so bad They actually want it to be different, but they're like, I'm not gonna be the first one to risk here You know, so so trust is actually built
through patterns, not promises. ⁓ So that's how you help start getting, you've got to be consistently faithful to this because trust is built through patterns and not promises. Now we know this is hard. I've seen- just want to, I love that. It's built through patterns, not promises. ⁓ So how long does it take for a pattern, you know, when you think when-
something truly becomes a habit, what is it, 21 times or something like that. So not that this is exactly the same, but I think there's some relationship there to say before their brain is gonna go, ⁓ this is what's gonna happen next. You're gonna have to do this a lot. Yeah, and what I've consistently seen, Sarah, and I know you've heard this too, is this can be really hard. That pattern's really hard to change, you know? And because there's a lot of fear, know? Parents, this does feel like an emergency.
Especially if the kid is holed up in their room, they seem like they're on the phone all the time. You seem like you're losing your child. So it's hard. It's all finding good to say, be patient, be consistent, because fear comes in there and fear will start whispering. What if we never fix this? What if this never gets better? What if they pull away forever? Yeah, it's really, it's high stakes, right? This is your most important little people in the whole world. You know, your heart is out there.
And so it's really, really, really hard. And then we fall back into that fear and we don't act the, that's not the best place to be making decisions from, but it's so hard. So I just want to kind of feel for us that we do that, you know, we get scared and then we revert to old things because we feel like, no, I'm just going to force this. ⁓

Kyle Wester (15:52.632)
Well, and then it can start making us freak out because of our own childhood wiring, especially for parents who value communication and repair. It can be like, I had this relationship with my, it's becoming just like it is with my parents and so on that can really get in there. Okay. But we want to help you reframe that. And here's how we'd encourage reframe it is wanting to talk is a strength, but rushing the talk is risky. It's a risk. Okay.
So wanting to talk, it's great. I love it when parents are like, really think that's important. I want to keep consistently doing, but if you try to rush it, it does scare the person off just like it would in any relationship. I'm ⁓ as you and I were talking about this. I'm thinking like ⁓ when you and I were dating and there's times where I wanted you to, you know, be like, yes, let's be, let's be together. Let's be like, and you'd be like, I'm uncertain. I wanted to talk about it. I want to talk about it. And everybody knows that's the way to push somebody away that I needed. You needed to back off.
you give space for the other person to really, what do they want? Right? And that's scary though, because you think I've got to keep inserting myself. And it's very much the thing I hear from these teenagers who have girlfriend boyfriend issues. They're doing that. They're texting constantly. And every parent that's not going to be good. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what actually happens. ⁓ What actually helps the teens to open back up. So that is our goal to help our kids be more open and receptive. These are the steps we want you to do and kind of think about and put into practice. Okay. And this is
what we do ourselves do exact same thing that we're always kind of keeping track. Number one is we got to regulate first and relate second. Okay. So regulate first, relate second. So we've really got to make sure we're not being motivated by that fear, not being motivated, that anxiety because they will feel it and it will impact their ability to trust it. Yes. Yeah. ⁓ It's really hard to do, but you know, with practice you get better and better at it. You know, put a little reminder on your phone. Yeah. Something that
Some go-to that just helps you go, okay, this is the space I'm gonna be in, this is where I'm headed. That reminder in those moments that are tough, because that's the space that's hardest. Yeah, so connection before correction, safety before solutions. These are some ideas, right? So basically like Sarah's saying, I've gotta find ways, and this is the hard part, Sarah, is the kid has closed off or pulled away, and the parent is at a loss for how to connect, because they just haven't done it for so long. But once again,

Kyle Wester (18:9.388)
That's true in many marriages. That's true in many friendships, right? How do we connect? You got to find ways for just little touch points to bring it back. So, so basically what, what this looks like is you want to make sure that you're having a neutral tone. Okay. Well, what does that mean? Yeah. So you don't want to come in all tearful or you don't want to come in ⁓ angry or anxious. ⁓ You want to come in just this with this calm. Who do you want to talk to in tough times? You know, so
Get your, take a moment to yourself in a good space. Take the energy out of it. Yes. And then you're just coming in with this, we love the word curiosity, but you're in a neutral space when you're curious, you know? So you just get to that space where things are even. Yeah, I've heard some parents do this, Sarah, like the kid is playing a video game or something like that and the parent goes and sits next to him and the kid's even like, what are you doing here? Like, I just was interested in what you were playing.
And then the kid, he's like, okay. And then after a while the kid's like, well, hey, know, actually what's happening on this one. And the kid just starts to talk because the parent was just sitting there, right? And the kid, but another parent could do the same thing. And like, I'm just trying to watch you play, you know? And then like, he's like, well, I don't want you to watch it. The kid feels it. Like, this is some kind of weird trick you're doing here. You're trying to get me to open up, you know? And so instead just like sitting there, whereas the goal is just the presence.
Just be there, just connect, right? And that brings into this idea of a low demand presence. You're not sitting there expecting, or you don't have an agenda attached Yeah, that's what I was gonna, I love that point of be really careful because teens have a little radar for that agenda. Super You have to be okay. You have to be okay with, okay, this is what we got today. I got to sit next to you and hear about your game. Yeah, And that's progress. So you can't go in with, this is where I'm gonna go. Yeah. You have to hold it loose.
They are shocked because they're like, dad didn't even bring up the schoolwork. My mom didn't say the room needed to be cleaned. Yeah, it was like, they just sat there and just talked about my game, right? And I know that's hard because like, oh, but that was the opportunity. I know that was the opportunity to start repairing and making a bridge, right? So here's some kind of scripts for you to kind of keep in mind. You could say, hey, I'm here when you're ready. So if you're having this opportunity,

Kyle Wester (20:24.908)
the kid isn't opening up, just say, it's okay, I'm here when you're ready. ⁓ Or we don't have to talk right ⁓ now. I think that's a really good one. ⁓ I feel like as a kid, you just take a deep breath and be like, ⁓ good, okay. And lots of kids will say that, like they're in the car and the parent will try to talk and they're no, I'm trapped. I can't get out. But I've had kids say to their parents, I just wish you would tell me we didn't have to do this right now because I feel kind of like I've been cornered in the car. ⁓
And we need to trust that they're saying they're not ready. ⁓ Wait for them to be ready. Yeah. And then you could also say, hey, you're not in trouble for how you feel. I just want to know how you feel about this. ⁓ Because that is a fear a kid might have. Because in most of culture, their teachers, whatever it is, other adults, they will be in trouble if they don't say it the right way or express it the right way. OK. Now let's move into step two would be, let's really drop the timeline. ⁓ So repair doesn't have to happen right now.
We would love that, it'd be great, but you're playing the long game. You're not playing the short game, okay? And teens often need hours or days to come back online and to feel safe again, feel like they can reengage it. Yeah, we ⁓ have to remember our brains are much more efficient at that. So literally days, you know, and I think honestly I felt that even as an adult. It might be days later that I finally feel like, okay, now I can talk about it.
So there's also personality differences. There's people who want to rush in, and then there's other people who need all that time to process and think. So know your child and know they might need more time than what you think they might need. Yeah, I've seen that just helping teenagers. Sometimes some teenager will ask a question and they have answers right away. Other teenagers will sit there for seriously. Since I'm a very talkative person, I externally process. ⁓ It is interesting to watch and we'll sit there for like a minute as the kid just thinks. And I'm like, this is interesting.
That kid just, and I know ⁓ one of our kids can be like that where they just need time to process that. And it's like, okay, this is not how I do it, but I need the respect. This is how you do it. And it's not going to help. only hurting yourself if you add any pressure to that moment. And ⁓ you'll actually, they'll actually be able to process faster, think quicker and be able to give you words if they don't feel like there's this, if they don't feel like they have to deliver what you want them to say, they don't have to deliver it in the time you want them to. ⁓

Kyle Wester (22:38.126)
you're actually gonna speed things up. because they start thinking, what is it you want me you're just, right, there's the pressure of it. Yeah. Yeah. And you seem to be getting mad now. thought we weren't gonna Yeah. I'm totally that person. So I'm speaking here for them. Yes. So I wanna say this like real directly to you that distance does not mean disconnection. So I know I say that a lot to parents that come in for coaching Sarah. Distance does not mean disconnection. Okay? So they still want you. They still want to, and sometimes actually,
it is the bridge back to the relationship. So that totally makes sense. Like maybe we need to spend time away for a little bit. Maybe we need to not talk for a little bit. It's not forever, but we need to give it a little space to let this thing breathe so we can come back to in a healthy way. And so we want to encourage you guys to stay steady, stay kind, and stay predictable or consistent, right? It's where the kids start seeing a new pattern. They start to trust this new pattern. Oh my God, it's been...
a few weeks and you haven't freaked out on me or pressured me to open up. That's a really, really big one, that predictability, building that trust. That's so good, that's so important to do. And of course, we might mess it up and that's when you're just going to be like, oh, that's not what I want to be doing now. So I'm sorry for that. This is what I'm working towards. And I had a moment. Okay, so it's step three, Sarah. We want to signal safety through behavior.
not words, okay? Signal safety through behavior, not words. Because here's what kids are watching for. Kids are watching, do you bring it up repeatedly? You know, is this like a, we keep talking about it, Number two, do you sigh? Do you withdraw? ⁓ Do you get kind of cold or distant, you know? And how you're, ⁓ do you punish with your silence? You know, I mean.
kids feel this. see it. They're so sensitive to it. Very sensitive to And so there your behavior isn't saying you're safe. It's saying like, ⁓ you're really upsetting me. You're really, yeah. How long is this going to take? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a better idea. Sometimes we need space for a moment. You can feel yourself and it's better just be like, you know what? I need a moment. And just get yourself out of that space and into a place where you can take care of you so you can reengage it. Yeah.

Kyle Wester (24:55.702)
And then, and then instead what we want to do, keep routines normal, ⁓ make sure we're not like getting the energy out of it. Make sure we're just doing the normal routines with them that we do offer warmth without pressure. Okay. Tell me more about that, Sarah. Offer warmth without pressure. you know, I think we've kind of hit on this, but ⁓ I'm nice and friendly and warm and loving, but it's because I want this, you know, it's that pressure to you're doing this because instead of just, I'm just loving you. Yeah.
You're just acceptable in this moment, lovable in this moment. I'm just here. There's not that extra pressure. And I think that goes along with keeping the routines normal. It's like, I'm not freaking out. ⁓ We will get through this. ⁓ So I'm not needing to do all this extra stuff to freak out about it. Because we can cycle between that pressure and ⁓ loving. And ⁓ that brings in, let your behavior do the talking. They will start to see the change. They will know they're watching. They don't believe it, but they're watching. ⁓ Trust me, they are wanting it to change.
They don't like this as much as you don't like it. And then so step four is invite, don't extract. So invite. So when they are calmer, keep it short and non-threatening. So some good questions asked. like, do you want comfort or space right now? So kind of like, would you like to pull away from this right now? Do you want some space right now? Would it help to talk or just hang out? I like that one too. Would you help to talk?
What felt hardest for you in that moment? That's a really good reflective question. ⁓ Avoid saying, why did you blank? It's very accusatory. That's you trying to extract from them. You need to explain this. ⁓ We're not done until we talk. ⁓ All those are gonna cause the kid to pull away. Yeah, and we just have to remember it is a win. The relationship ⁓ is a win.
If they're just willing to be in the room with you and even though you're quiet and you can't get your agenda accomplished, that's still a win. Because that relationship leads to the safety and trust that's needed to have the conversation. So you're still winning when you're there because I think a lot of parents think, oh, if I haven't addressed it, then that's a loss. they're getting this is a point of that was to do this. Right. But we have to realize it's like you've got to get that foundation. You want to build the rest of the house, you have to have the foundation. So

Kyle Wester (27:16.142)
I don't think any person who's building a house thinks, oh man, the foundation, you you have to it as good. I got this really important thing in place. Yeah, that's good. I like that metaphor too. I'm thinking about if your house had a crack, you would need to have somebody come in and repair that foundation. Everything else you do in that home, it's all going to fall apart. No matter how pretty the house looks, no matter how much money you put into the furnishings, if the foundation's cracked. And we've known that where you've had the conversation with your kid, but then afterwards you think, yes, I got the conversation, but you know the relationship stuff.
⁓ So really the point, the conversation is going to, you know, it's all going to crumble if you don't have the relationship. I know it's scary. It's frustrating because you can't control that. You can't make them ⁓ open up. ⁓ Yes. Yes. Okay. But you are modeling this for them on how to do this in the future with their future relationships. Right? So the last step, step five ⁓ is repair without a full conversation. So this is really big for you, for all parents who are listening to hear this, for us to hear this as well.
is repair can sound like, I didn't handle that the way I wanted to. ⁓ Or it could sound like I'm working on staying calmer. ⁓ Be patient with me. ⁓ Also, I love you even when things are messy. ⁓ man, that's a big. And ⁓ I'm also seeing, if you haven't listened to the interview that we did a few weeks back with Kirk Martin and his son Casey, who's now an adult, I encourage you to go back and listen. This is exactly what Casey's saying. Casey's saying,
their change in their relationship, how he started ⁓ trusting his dad again was because his dad didn't have these long talks. ⁓ When he messed up and didn't stick to what he said he was gonna do, which was be calmer with him and not yell at him and not ⁓ lecture him, he would just come up and say, hey Casey, I'm sorry for how I spoke to you. And then he'd say, just walk away. ⁓ Or do something simple like that. Success was him modeling that ⁓ this is on me. Like I'm gonna take responsibility for this, right? And then that...
made it to where he trusted his dad that then he could then own his stuff with his dad. And that's what really repaired the relationship. So no response is actually required. There's no processing needs to be demanded. Now obviously, I think that would be great if we eventually get there, And we eventually want to be able to have a future with our kids all throughout their life that we have conflicts and we can go resolve these and talk about them in calm, helpful ways. But in this moment, that's not what it's about.

Kyle Wester (29:41.644)
And this moment is about you understanding the win is the connection. The win is you changing the pattern. Everything else is built on that. So that's the real win. Yeah. And then this will start to build a relationship of safety that has no pressure, ⁓ you know, because that pressure ⁓ isn't going to help them. I mean, not only in a relational sense, but seriously in a neurological sense, you know, cause this is, this is hard for me. Cause I am a pressure person. I want to talk about it now. And typically in a relationship,
you have that in a marriage. One likes to talk about it now, the other one's like, can we wait a few days? And like, whenever, I don't do marriage counseling now, but when I did in the past, that was a lot of conflict. There was always one who wanted to wait because it took them some time to, and another one who wanted to do it now. And it seemed like one was always winning and the other one was losing. So the one who ⁓ couldn't seem to wait a few days demanded to be done now. And the other one would just like acquiesce.
and the conversation would actually hurt their marriage, you know, because they felt like, but then the other one would just wait for days and days and days. Now the only difference with this and your kid is like, your kid is still learning how to do this. They're still learning who they are and how to communicate with you, you know, and there is an ⁓ inherent power structure that's at play there. Whereas like in a marriage, it's this equal power structure where the kid knows.
you could destroy their life. ⁓ know, if you really get mad at them, you could destroy your words. Like even though they mean a lot to you and I as a couple, they mean so much more to your kid and the way you react and the way you talk to them, it could really crush their heart and hurt the relationship. ⁓ Yeah, it's, it's just so important. And ⁓ I think about what you're giving to your child that just how amazing, how good that would feel to be, you see me.
And the relationship is really important, not just this agenda that you've talked to me about this thing I did. You know, and, it's not even letting them get away with it. Cause I don't know if people are a little worried about that, but, but this relationship, if all of that is coming from a deep connected trusting relationship, it's going to be, you know, a million times better. It would feel so good if you're the kid. Yeah. So, so we hope this was helpful. Gave you some clear steps, five clear steps on how to start repairing that relationship with your teen. If your teen is shutting down now.

Kyle Wester (31:55.918)
⁓ definitely tune in next week where we're gonna dive in about how to create this relationship with your kid even earlier than the teenage years. So if you got even smaller kids to where there's not this fear wrapped around talking about conflict and the ability to resolve it. Because that's really where you wanna get to in your relationship. We can all talk about hard things, things we disagree on. And in this culture that is so, so important because families are getting divided by their inability to actually just talk about things.
⁓ And so people are shutting down pulling away withdrawing and ⁓ they're struggling with how to reconnect so ⁓ Really hope this gave you the skills definitely share this with friends of yours who have teenagers who you know are struggling with us I know you know a lot of people tell them to listen into this and we'd love to hear your feedback on how this is helping You and your teenagers, so ⁓ we look forward to talking to you next week and have a wonderful day