Episode 233

Anger is such a common feeling in most families. So many couples come see us for help because they're struggling with anger. One tends to be a little bit more quick to anger, the other one may be slow to anger. And this can cause a lot of conflict between a couple. But then eventually, then when they have kids, when that anger starts to bubble up and there's a lot of yelling or there's a lot of stuffing of the anger, this can really cause a lot of issues and conflicts and a lot of

A hurt and isolation in a family. And so today, Sarah and I want to model for you how we have these kind of conversations as a couple to where a feeling like anger can actually be a feeling that actually brings us closer together and unites us as a family because we realize we come from totally different perspectives. So in this episode, Sarah and I are gonna talk about our relationship with anger all throughout our families of origin when we were kids and how how we were shown how

How to use anger, what anger's for, and how through our intentional conversations throughout the years, we've been able to expand our understanding of anger and how to have those conversations with our kids. So I think you're really gonna enjoy this vulnerable conversation about this really common feeling. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to stop, pause, and leave a review or a comment. and especially on this episode, we'd love to get some feedback. You can reach out to me at Kyle at artofraisinghumans.com and email me. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

on anger and what how it plays a role in your family. And also if you need any help as a mom or a dad and you're saying, man, me and my spouse, we need some that's that's what I love to do. I love to help coach families with feelings like this because it is necessary to have and grow healthy kids to know how to relate to this feeling called anger. So without further ado, look forward to you jumping in on our conversation.

Kyle and Sara Wester (00:01.048)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hey everyone, welcome. I'm Sarah. And you know, Sarah, one of the most common reasons why people come for help in in regards to whether individually for parenting or as a couple is one feeling in particular. And that feeling causes a lot of disruption in a family, and that feeling is happiness. No, I'm just kidding. No, it's anger. The feeling is anger. Right. Right? And lots of people are.

Unsure about how to deal with that anger, you know, whether it's from their kids or whether it's anger from a spouse, and it causes a lot of conflict within the home. It does, yeah. Because it doesn't typically feel good. Okay. So what we wanted to do today was kind of a free-flowing conversation about how, like kind of modeling a little bit about how you and I do this, okay.

That we still, after twenty four years of marriage, we still have conversations about things like this. Yeah. And and I think it's to me one of my favorite parts of our marriage is that we have these things that we're kind of confused about. How do you see it? It's totally different than how I see it. And then it's through those discussions that we grow closer together as a couple. Yeah. Yeah. We I think it it's similar to, you know, we're giving you a kind of a glimpse. Glimpse. Yeah. Yeah. It's obviously we're

We're doing this, so it's gonna feel kinda weird to me. But but but it's like we, you know, we do the whole parenting together thing where we talk about how we have worked through different perspectives, different values, different experiences. And and so this one's gonna be about anger, but it it's kind of tying that in how we do this and what that can look like.

And you created a great worksheet if they want to to go to the website at arteraisinghumans.com and there's a section called resources that could get the parenting together. Yeah, no, honestly, like I made it because I feel like we've worked really hard to do this and it's not perfect, but we've worked really, really hard. So it's just a way of saying, hey, this is how we do it. Yeah. Hope it helps you. Yeah. And so I want you right now as the listener, just take a moment and think about how you feel about anger.

Kyle and Sara Wester (02:13.24)
How do you express it? how does your co-parent, the person you're co-parenting with, how does it come out in them? what's your thoughts and opinions about it? Do you want it completely eradicated from your home? Do you think do you have that sometimes in culture this idea that anger is is good and kids need to, we need to get angry at kids or kids need to be angry about so it's it's all these kind of different messages. Okay. So I thought I'd start with kind of interviewing you a bit, okay? Just to how I get to the first yes, of course, because I talk too much. Okay. So I wanted to ask you.

how anger dealt with in your family? Like growing up, how did that show up? I think I okay, this is my perspective. So we're just gonna own right now that if you interviewed my siblings or something, they might have a different perspective. So just own that for yourself. It's this is gonna be your perspective. But mine on on it was it wasn't a good thing to be angry. We we wanted anger nicely tucked under the rug, you know, so you very quickly want to stuff that, shove it, squelch it.

shut it down. Okay. So, so I would say that would be my really short answer to it. So there wasn't a lot of I mean the benefits of it, I didn't experience a lot of yelling. Yeah. There really I mean if someone yelled it was what? And you better you calm it down, man. there was and so we definitely had times where people were angry or were frustrated, but it was a very quick process to calm down and talk about it. Yeah. And

And not a lot of value was given to the anger. If if that makes sense. Yeah. So it was like, Okay, you're mad, but stop being mad and and talk about it. Yeah. So in general, anger wasn't something you saw a lot of. You didn't experience much of it. Yeah. If it was expressed. I would say it more shocked me if I saw it and I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do if I felt angry. Okay. You know, 'cause it was a shut it down. Yeah.

So I didn't know what to really do with it. Now that I look back, I think I don't think I knew what to do when I felt angry or how to express it, how to move through it in, you know. And then if I saw anger, if someone was angry in my family or something like that, probably scared me. I felt like I had to change so they wouldn't be angry. So they wouldn't be angry. Yeah. Okay. Was it bad to be angry? Yeah, I think it was a general negative. It was a negative thing to be angry. So that was not something you should not be angry or expressing anger.

Kyle and Sara Wester (04:37.59)
Yeah. I mean that that was my that was what I took. That was how I felt it was. And that also goes with my personality. So, you know, I felt like you anger is not something you necessarily express away. Yeah, I don't really I don't really love anger is my least favorite emotion. That's right. Yes. Okay. Okay. Now so in my family Okay. I don't remember myself, yes. In my family, I would say it was actually very it would it would have been strange.

To not have anger communicated in some way every day. So every day. Every day. Somebody was mad about something, whether it was sibling to sibling anger, whether it was parents being upset about something, or parents being upset with each other, or anger was definitely, there was a lot of feelings in my home, but anger definitely was a very common feeling. Like I would say sometimes people just woke up anger.

I just woke up mad and like it was they're just mad to get up, you know? And so from the very from the very first conversation, Kyle, it's time to get up. Leave me alone. I was like, my gosh. And I think a lot of listeners can relate to that. That yeah, it was like, leave me alone. I I remember even at times my dad would come in there and try to like gently wait, I'd be What do you know what time it is? Why are you in my room? Get out of my room. It was like immediately conflict would start like that. My dad would just be, I'm just trying to wake you And I'll be like,

I have an alarm. Like, let me do it. Get out of my room. Now you've woken me up. Yeah. my mom typically she tried to wake me up with food. So she'd say, Hey, I made breakfast. I was not mad about that. I'd love some eggs and bacon. But in general, anger was common. And it was actually, to me, I took it as yeah, a lot of times it I didn't like it all the time. But definitely, if you cared about something, you probably expressed it in an angry way.

And if you weren't expressing it that way, you probably don't care enough about it. So you must think I care about nothing. No, it was just very little that I cared about. It's just passion was connected to anger, you know? Which also goes with your Yeah, with my personality. So more my personality sees that too. Yeah. So it's like, yeah.

Kyle and Sara Wester (06:52.342)
Let's get into the anger. So every listener is going, How did you guys get married? Yeah. So different. But of course, I think it's those differences that attracted me to you in particular. Of like, wow, this is interesting. Like, she doesn't ever seem to get angry about anything. I've never met a human being like this. This is strange. So I think the opposites attracted there. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's on my dad. I mean, I really feel like I could count on

Two fingers. How I mean really, I don't remember my dad getting mad. Mm-hmm. You know. Yeah. And even my mom, I mean, you probably wouldn't have considered her mad. Sure. I don't know, by comparison, the stories that you tell, my mom would, but she was very tempered in it. She would quickly take it down and and and you know. Okay. So I I I I want to know.

So when we first got married and you were introduced to the fact that I think anger is a normal daily emotion to have. And to get upset about things is common and actually important. So common. Did not know it was gonna be so common. What was how did how did that, you know, change? I mean, what were you thinking as you engaged that or were ex were exposed to it? Well, I was genuinely shocked. I really was shocked. I had not been used to that.

Even in my friendships, I wasn't used to that at all. And so it was just very, very shocking. And then I felt like I was responsible. I believed, you know, to me the message was, You're making me angry. And I believed that. And I felt like I had to change to stop you from being angry. That my whole goal was then to prevent you from being angry. I mean, you weren't abusive or anything like that, but your voice would raise, you'd argue frequently about small things like cool whip and cool whip.

We gotta give some context to that story, okay? Story is Cool Whip. We were gonna have something, dessert. Yeah, I'm gonna cool whip was in the freezer. So I was like, I need to get this out and let it thaw. We plan to do this thing. So I put it on the countertop. But then something stopped us. Yeah. I forgot about it. We went to bed the next morning, got up, and the cool-whip was out, which by that time it was bad. Yeah. And it was like a dollar thirty. Ruined cool whip. And

Kyle and Sara Wester (09:08.374)
You had a lot of big strong feelings. I was thinking, man, the cool whip. I forgot to put it away. I didn't realize it was the end of the world and needed an hour-long conversation. Yeah. And for you, you know, you you're that was a normal, like, yeah, you get super mad about cool whip. Yeah, you just wasted the cool whip. Yeah. Or I'm thinking this is even dumber. This is telling our age before we could record things or have things paused on TV.

There were many times where you would be doing something and I would see like a commercial I wanted you to see, or I would see some kind of trailer that I want because we didn't even have YouTube at the time for anything. So people I really wanted you to see it. I'd be like, Sarah, get in here now. Come, come, come. And then you would miss it, and then I'd be frustrated about that. There was even one time, this is really funny, where you had just got done pledging, like putting a pledge on the dining room table.

And our hardwood floors were very slippery and you came running so fast that you slipped out. I was trying to not have you been mad at me. I slipped and I flew, guys. I flew. Then I was frustrated that you did that. Because I was like, Why would you do that? Why would you come sliding across the floor? So we're learning is you got mad about a lot of Once again, it was daily. It was daily. It was, and this was normal for you. It was normal. And I was not expecting that. I did not know that. I didn't know people

Any human lived this life of anger that you lived about the tiniest things. So I remember the first time where we started having some really good conversations about this is we're getting our master's degrees, trying to become counselors, right? And there was a conflict resolution class we had. Brilliant class. Such a good class. Dr. Holmes, he was great. And so we learned, like you had just said, you said that.

It seemed like I was sending a message, you were making me mad. And that was a very cool insight when he was saying like a big part of resolving conflict is no one makes you feel things. Like no one makes you mad. Like I'm choosing to be mad. And and and the ability to own that. And I remember you and I started from that point on kind of making a commitment that we're just not gonna say that. We're not gonna say anything makes me mad. Yeah.

Kyle and Sara Wester (11:22.018)
Right. Whether it's a boss or traffic. I mean, you can easily see it to me, it just really was like, Well, if not everyone gets mad about the same things. Well, even between you and I, I I was getting mad about a lot of things and you weren't getting mad at all about them. So clearly anger is something that's very personal. And there's it's whatever's in you has a d it's not someone else because otherwise that person would be able to equally make everyone feel the same thing, like a magician. Bam, happiness, ha bam, calm, mad.

And that's not how it works. So well and the cool's a great example. Like most people listening be Why would you get mad about that? To me, I thought, why wouldn't you get mad about that? So it seemed like to me I have been kind of wired to think that's the that to me, that's the most accessible, easy feeling to have about that situation. Whereas you were confused, being like, How does being mad about this help in bring back the cool way to you it was a negative emo? Like you don't get mad like

You don't get mad about most things or anything, much less cool with, you know? Where I'm like, that's exactly why you get mad. That's what anger is for, until we learned this idea and then we started trying to implement that between ourselves. Right. Right. Yeah. And and then that gave us the ability to take responsibility for how we're feeling. It really helped me in particular to start owning my anger. And that was a first step, I think, to us getting closer to at least having a better understanding that we could both agree on about the feeling of anger.

I think it too, it kinda helped remove some of the judgment around it. yeah. I mean, as far as the judgment on who you know, it helped own your own feelings, but then it also helped of, okay, they're all gonna own their own feelings. I don't need to manage their feelings and I in fact don't even need to judge their feelings. Yeah. If you wanna feel mad, okay. Yeah. You know, kind of and like the different than

If someone was hurting me, that would be different. But it's like if you're just wanting to feel sad, mad, happy, glad, whatever you're wanting to feel, yeah, you can feel it. And I don't need to manage it. I don't need to take responsibility for it. And in fact, I cannot it's okay for me to feel the feelings I feel about things. I but I'd love how you're saying it, sir, 'cause like you were saying at first, you felt responsible for how I was feeling and the way in which I was expressing it, even if I didn't say you made me mad.

Kyle and Sara Wester (13:36.877)
I was sending the message to you that that's what it was. I was blaming you for my anger, right? So in this process of just taking that statement at its face value, you started not only saying, okay, I'm not responsible for how Kyle feels, but not only that, I can actually choose to be mad. And it can actually feel give you the freedom to at times be angry about things and it doesn't mean something bad about you. Right, right. And it's just like it's just an another feeling in the spectrum of feelings.

And I could do that. And then I had to figure out like what do I, if I allow myself to feel this, what am I going to do about it? Right. Because the feeling is one thing. And then it's what behaviors follow, the feelings that matter. And that, you know, for me, I thought, okay, that's the important part. if you yell at me, I don't like that behavior. And so I can create some boundary around that. And I've got to decide when I'm angry, what's that gonna look like? How am I going to how do I wanna show up with that and do something about it versus just.

Shove it under a rug, stuff it deep inside my body. Don't carry forever, you know. So it kind of moved me in that direction. Well, and I that's what I love about you, Sarah, is like I know I came in thinking this had to be what a family was like. And you hadn't been in the family that did this. But you also hadn't been in a family that was allowed to really express that, you know, to be angry. I wasn't allowed to not express it. It seemed like that was the only like just like I said, like if you weren't angry about it, you didn't care about it.

Yeah, that was the kind of message I had. So you cared about things and you weren't mad and how you expressed it, right? So there was this cool as as we understood this better, then I was able to take responsibility for being mad and realize I don't need to be mad about so many things. And actually being this mad is super stressful. It's like It looks like it was super stressful. And it was and and and I was like wired to be on edge and ready to yell.

during traffic while I'm driving or to turn that towards you. And I loved that as you were able to say, Hey, I don't want to be spoken to this way. I don't want you to yell at I I was so thankful that you didn't want that. I was like, wow, this is great. Like she wants me to be better than this and I believe I can. And so it's kind of called something good out of me. I don't need to be mad all the time, but also called something out of you that says I can be mad about some things and that's okay. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause you kinda gave

Kyle and Sara Wester (16:01.858)
I don't want to say permission because that's wrong word. Yeah. You know, when someone says it's okay that you feel that way, it's kind of like giving them permission to feel that way. When I had had this judgment on it, like I should never feel this way. Or I can't ever feel that way. And to go, okay, okay, so I can be upset about something. That's yeah, that's okay to do. And I and you know, that was something I had to I had to practice. Well, so we so we came together believing, okay, so anger isn't bad or good, it's just another feeling, right? Yeah.

And we believe all these feelings are part of our human growth and development. Experience and and they're they're important. So they're they don't need to be stuffed and they don't always need to be expressed, right? They just need to be experienced and understood. Right. So eventually then you and I started becoming more curious about the feeling. Like you feel angry about this and you're not wanting to express it, or I'm feeling angry about this, and I keep feeling like I have to express it, right? Right. And let's be curious about.

What is the anger there for? Because we Yes, that's we don't want to raise kids who grew up in a home where they think they either can't be angry or have to be angry all the time. Yeah, it really was something then I was like, super like you said, curious about anger. And it while it's not always true that anger is covering for another emotion, you know, because anger can feel safer.

Yeah. If you feel vulnerable, anger feels much more protective to yourself than admitting your vulnerability, right? So there can be this piece of anger that's like kind of shield the shield before the real feeling, but that's not necessarily always true. Yeah. You know, so it kind of led me on this like, wow, okay, anger can be about an injustice, perceived or real, you know, but it can be like there's this un injustice happening. If I'm angry about children being abused, you know, or something like that, it can be just straight up anger.

That there is this injustice in the world. We need to protect children and that can motivate me. But so it led down this whole thing of anger can be about an expectation or that wasn't met, or I had this goal and this blocked my goal. And or you don't care. I don't feel seen. So it so it kind of led this whole curiosity thing of whenever seeing anger, not just seeing it as anger shut it down or anger yell, but what is this about? And being super curious about the things that

Kyle and Sara Wester (18:21.846)
are involved with anger and how it can be actually a really helpful emotion, right? So instead of I went from thinking, shut it down, to wow, this this anger, this a feeling in someone else or, you know, as a counselor, I'm hearing all kinds of anger, right? And and just being really curious in how how what a helpful emotion it can be when it's not running you. Yeah. But it's sitting next to you going, yo, over here, I'm, you know, I'm I'm here to tell you

someone there's an injustice or someone's doing this, you know, it's a it's a way of you noticing some one of my boundaries is being and and I can choose to go, okay, I'm kind of seeing this wrong or I can choose action after that. But how it's actually can be my friend, it's meant just like anxiety or other feelings are there. And so I grew to appreciate that part of anger, even though it can be hard to get there. It can be hard to unpack anger. I did appreciate then that it was there.

As another helpful emotion in our lives. It's funny how you explained that because I was thinking, yeah, anger could be a boundary cross. Anger could be about an injustice happening. and I was thinking, like, I I thought every time I had anger, it was all of those. It was a boundary being cross. There was definitely some injustice happening that I was gonna need to do. But then I that's why I really lean towards what helped me most with my anger and with people listening to this who I feel like really struggle with being angry a lot.

Is I needed to get below it. So you talked about it being a protector for a more vulnerable feeling, right? So whenever I'm coaching dads or moms about anger, I'm talking about how underneath anger is typically, you know, it doesn't like you say not always, but lots of times there's a fear underneath there, or there's something hurting there. And you're using anger, and this is what I was using, I think most often for. I just saw it as injustice or this, but it really was I was actually hurting or scared. And what was I afraid of? Typically afraid of being controlled.

Afraid of being powerless. I would definitely get mad if I felt like I was looking stupid or incompetent. Embarrassment is actually really linked to anger. Yeah. Fear that's a good point. Fear a lot for not not only looking stupid, but also looking like I'm failing, you know, like I'm I'm I'm being a crappy dad in this moment or something like that, or being called out in some way. So once I got to those more vulnerable ones and I I stopped focusing so much on don't be mad or don't be angry. And that's kind of you weren't sending this message, but sometimes I would take it that

Kyle and Sara Wester (20:46.988)
That like the message is mad is bad. So I can't be mad. I think early on I would have, I would have thought, that's bad. What are you doing? Stop. Yeah. And then I almost felt like a bad husband. Because I got mad. Yeah, because I thought it was kind of it was this. Yeah. Maybe not always, but we thought, nah, ninety ninety-five percent of the time. Well, and you should not have anger. And your dad is so different than me. Yes. Your dad is like, he's so opposite of me in that sense. So so I could see why you would think that. Whereas

I was like, so maybe in my home it what maybe we were doing this bad things. And lots of times it did. It led into yelling and led into a a lot of getting hurt. Yeah, a lot of conflict, all that stuff, right? So like I I I anger can be it can sure. It can lead to that. So that's where I needed to get below that and identify what is the fear or hurt underneath the anger. And you and I would have conversations just like this that would really help me unpack it. Okay. And the reason why this is important, and I encourage any

couple that feels safe to do this with each other. I'd encourage you to do this because we wanted to be able to understand how to communicate to our kids about anger. Yeah, because when you have kids and and then obviously it we weren't through all this. We're still kind of sometimes unpacking it. But you're like, yeah, let's be mad, everybody. And they're like, no, never be mad. That was obviously gonna be very confusing to our children and in our family. That was going to create a lot of instability. So we had to

Do something about that. Those messages. Well, we really thought this feeling in particular, you know, even more so than I think fear or sad. This one in particular, we knew as a couple we needed to have some kind of unified understanding about how we want to approach anger. Right. Are we gonna think it's bad? Are we gonna encourage it? Or are we going to first ourselves as a couple and individuals unpack it and then help give that to our kids, you know, by like you said, not letting anger be something that bosses

any of us around. So we can all feel it. Yes. It's a feeling we all have and it's okay to feel it, but we need to be able to have a constructive way to express it and understand it. Yeah, because it can be helpful, like where I want it to have a place in my children's lives is to go, okay, if you're feeling this, it's telling you to speak up about something. How you speak up and what you do is very important. But that that anger saying, Hey, speak up about this. I want my children

Kyle and Sara Wester (23:11.788)
To go out in the world and be able to do that in the workplace, or even for if they see an injustice happening, if they do see a woman being mistreated or or a person of color being mistreated, or some some some situation or just some other kid being bullied. Like I said Yeah, I want that to be able to be something where they go, Hey, wait a second here. You know, I need to speak up about this. Well, what right now in our society going on is the the rape case with the Cornell University, right? And we want our kids to see this and go.

If you were on that group text messaging thread and you were telling our son, you I want you to rise up and there's gonna be some anger. Like, what are we doing here? You know? So using that, it can be this like wake-up call to us, and that's the piece of it that's like, yeah, look at that, listen. Well, well, and sometimes the anger can be seen or perceived as disrespect, right? And we are gonna jump into a whole nother podcast for next week, yeah, talking about that and how to perceive that differently. But we want our kids.

Like anger is an appropriate feeling to have in certain situations. Right. Now, other times the kids might feel angry, and and we just want to get to the bottom of that. Like, what's underneath that? What are you really afraid of? Or how are you what's hurting in this moment? And then we want them to be able to express that anger in a way that is helpful and not hurtful. Okay. Right. Because the the anger is not the ruler. Yeah.

Right. It's there to inform you. Don't let it rule your behavior and actions from that point. But but what and what I hope the listeners are hearing is this is what we had to do in our marriage prior to the kids coming on. Right. Yeah. Is like we could have just said, shut it down, don't be angry, or you you need to get over it, Sarah. I'm gonna be mad no matter what. And that's not gonna be good for our relationship. But it's and it's not gonna be good for our kids either. So we needed to early on decide like when we get mad, yes.

About what what what what are you mad about? How how there's many times it was like you would say to me, Can you just say it this way? Or could you just express it like that? Yeah. And I in that moment I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. But when I was mad that I couldn't see that, right? Because in my home that's not how we express we just screamed at each other. Right. And and in that I mean, we we've talked about this a lot, but obviously if you are in that place of anger, it's very likely to kind of

Kyle and Sara Wester (25:32.087)
your system, your body, your brain is gonna go, whoa, protect me. Right. Because anger is protective. So it may not, you may need to dial, you may need to deal with your anger, do things to take care of yourself, to bring it down a bit before you're able to access the part of your brain, you know, to have better access to the part of your brain that says, okay, I think this is what was going on for me. This is what I want to do about it. You know, at first you might need to help your system calm down.

Yeah. Because it's an alert saying something's really, really wrong here and I'm gonna go fight someone or I'm gonna go, you know, generally anger is gonna be I'm gonna go fight someone about this. Well, and the success is after all these years, 24 plus, that we've been discussing this throughout our relationship, even we're dating, right? Is the success isn't that all of a sudden I'm never angry and somehow you you know you're you're able to express your anger all the time. It's like we still in the moments of crisis can feel ourselves default back.

Right. To where I'm like, let's go. You know, and you're like, no. You know? And we can still and we both throughout the years though, because these kind of have wired our brains to have an alternative way to do it. Like I can go, it doesn't need to be this way. And you're also like, Yeah, I'd actually like it this way instead. Yeah. And then we come together and then that anger is a way for us to actually come closer rather than pushing each other further away. And like like you pointed out, I like that. It I mean it is taken practice 'cause

Again, it's sort of like saying, I'm gonna switch paths. I have this well round this groove that I'm really used to sliding into and it's automatic and I've got to build a new groove. So that that's gonna take time and it's time we're we're still doing, we're still practicing those things. And but it gets easier. Yeah. The more that you go, okay, for me. Anger's not so bad. What's anger trying to tell me? Okay, it's not so bad that he's angry. What there's something to it. I wanna try to hear what's going on for him.

And and you get better and better at that as you keep practicing it. And and and I thank you for having this conversation with me. I appreciate it. I I love I love having these kind of talks with Sarah because I always learn so much more about her and myself. And I hope that you can in your relationship with your spouse have these kind of conversations too, because these are important conversations that we needed to have so we could then have them with our kids.

Kyle and Sara Wester (27:51.917)
So when we have an angry teenager or an angry five-year-old, whatever the age is, we're not either reacting from our own childhood experience or, you know, we're actually able to be intentional about how we want to respond to that. we know what it's there for, and we're able to help our kids in those moments of crisis. So hope this just free-flowing conversation about anger will help you. We'd love to hear your comments about.

you know, ways in which you've experienced and and dealt with it in your home, in ways that have been helpful to you growing together as a couple or helping your kids with anger, because it is such a big feeling in our culture today and always has been throughout the history of mankind. And we we really want to have a healthy relationship with it rather than being scared of it. So thank you so much for for taking the time to listen to Sarah and I have this conversation about anger. And look forward to you joining us next week when we talk about disrespect, a real common little

trigger for anger. I was gonna say baby that grows from anger and and how to deal with that. So we hope you have a wonderful day and we hope this helped deepen your understanding of anger in your family.