Episode 223

Have you ever asked your child a question and they said, I don't know, or you try to talk with them about something important, they said, you know what, I don't care. I don't, I don't really care. Maybe it was about school, could be about chores, screens, lying, conflict, disrespect, or something they did wrong. And in that moment, it can feel like you hit a wall. You're trying to parent, you're trying to understand, you're trying to help them take responsibility. And they just keep giving you these three words. I don't know or I don't care. Today we want to show you.

How to slow that moment down and ask what might actually be underneath those words. Because I don't know if you know this, maybe you do. I don't know and I don't care are often not the whole story. And today we're gonna help you unravel the story so you can better help your kids know and care. And if you need help as parents, you're saying, I would love to journey with somebody, hand in hand or side by side.

In a metaphorical sense, of course, and saying I would love some coaching for me and my spouse to be able to have a home where we're connected with our kids, know how to deal with conflict, how we have a clear vision going forward with our family, then please reach out to me at Kyle at ArtofraisingHumans.com. And I would love to set up a call with you to tell you how I could do that or see if we're a good fit for you. if you haven't already, take a moment to pause, comment, rate, review the podcast.

We really love to hear your feedback and five star reviews always are awesome to get. And so without further ado, let's get ready to jump in to know what to do when your kids say, I don't know, and I don't care.

Kyle and Sara Wester (00:01.176)
Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sarah. And you know, Sarah, something that can really trigger parents. I've seen it happen. When I'm coaching parents and a kid says something like, I don't care. And like and sometimes the parents will tell me when you ask them questions, they're not gonna answer. They're just gonna say, I don't care. Or I don't know, to really common replies. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I I think it's really common and it makes me want to jump into.

Why the kids saying that? Well, because yeah, lots of times. I'm sorry. Yeah. I was gonna say like lots of time. I thought you you were giving me a pause there. I was thinking lots of times you see it, especially with boys, they'll say it's because they don't want to be vulnerable, you know, saying I don't care. Cause if I say I care, you know, I c I'm giving something away. Maybe I'm giving something to you, I'm showing you weakness. Yeah, it's I think it's you hear a lot of kids say this.

But you know, even in our we had some previous episodes that were great about boys and it is something I feel like you see a lot in boys. It's we're gonna talk about why it's why it's there and what they do with it. But yeah, I think this is like one a lot of parents at that point you feel kind of helpless. You kind of feel like, Okay, what do I do with that? Yeah. You know. Well, and then especially I don't know. I don't know is a real fun one when I'm trying to help a teenager and they just say, I don't know.

And typically we'll talk about other things you could say, but I like to say, well, how would you know? I just asked you. You know? And I like to say, let's just take a minute and let's just give you a second to know. You know? And they're like, why did you do that? I know. Then they and they it's lots of a good way to deflect and say, I'm not gonna go there with you. I don't I don't want to take time to think about this, right? Okay, but let's start out with why these statements in particular can trigger parents so much, you know? first of all, it can be kind of scary when our kid is saying, I don't care.

And the reason why that can be scary is because the parent thinks, what if they really don't care? You know, this is really important about grades, about friendships. it's really scary if they hurt their sibling and they say they don't care. I mean, somebody's parents be I think I'm raising a psychopath because Yeah, you go to this worst case scenarios because as you know, our adult mind, we're like room right down the road. How can you not care? Yeah. What's gonna happen if you don't care? So it's real easy to we get from here to there in no time. Yeah.

Kyle and Sara Wester (02:20.391)
And well, and like I said, yeah, big statements like our kid seems psychopathic, our kid has no empathy, all because the kid's saying, I don't care. Yeah, they're not gonna have a job, they're gonna be sitting on the side of the road because they don't care. Yeah, and they even they'll say they even said that to me. I said, You're gonna be homeless. I don't care, you know? Exactly. Yeah. And but when our kid says, I don't know, that can also be kind of scary because what if they're lying? What if they're trying to avoid responsibility? What if they're trying to get out of it?

so we are not only that's true. Yeah. So what so we are actually, you know, we're not only reacting to the words those or those statements, we are reacting to the story that very quickly in our parenting brain can start to create the story about those words. they are checked out. They're manipulating me. They're they're they're they're gonna grow up never taking responsibility. I'm losing my influence. You know, I have no the kid doesn't listen to me anymore.

And all those fears make sense, but when we start to parent from fear, Sarah, we usually move into pressure. Yes. Our brain hears things, right? Everything we hear, even if it's do you want a piece of pie, right? Our brain is going to do something with those. And it's hard to when our kids say that, it's really hard to just stay in that moment, right? 'Cause we go all the way down the road, our brain is looking for patterns, it's looking for meaning, it's assigning all of our history to those words. Yeah.

So it immediately jumps into so many options instead of sitting in this moment right here. And that's just normal. So we just need to go, okay, my brain's doing that. Let me just rein it in a bit. Let me get back to this moment with my child. Yeah. So you're saying if we were actually to pause and be curious, maybe we wouldn't react and start doing things like lecturing or threatening, demanding an answer, or trying to force our kids to know something they may not be able to access yet at that moment.

And often the harder we push, and if you're listening and you've done this, I you know this, the harder we push, the higher and higher and higher those walls start to get. Yeah, because our if you go to brain states, our brain starts getting into that scared part instead of our prefrontal cortex. It's scared, it's feeling like it's gotta. If I pile on another lecture, this one's gonna do the magic that the other lectures didn't do, right? But as we move into that scared space, mad space, whatever it was that dysregulation.

Kyle and Sara Wester (04:41.585)
Of fear and all those things, our kid joins us there even more. They're already we're gonna get to this, they're already there. Uh-huh. And then we just help shove them further further along. And then we're both in a even if we're we seemingly look calm, yeah. We are both actually in dysregulated states. And if you look at the mirror neurons, we're we're not we're not we want to help our kids move into a different space. We have to get ourselves in that space first. Well, and this is just true about every human, but specifically with kids.

When kids and your and your teenagers feel calm and connected, they're gonna have better access to the part of the brain that helps them do the very things you're wanting them to do, which is reflect on what they've done, maybe explain what they've done, problem solve to doing something differently, take the responsibility you're wanting them to take, and also think about the future consequences or implications of what's happened. But when they do feel ashamed, but just like we do in our marriage with or with our friendships, when we feel ashamed, embarrassed, scared, accused, overwhelmed, or we're just put on the spot.

that thinking part of the brain isn't really working. You you you move towards that self-protective part of your brain. And this matters for kids ages from eight all the way up to 18 because their brains are still developing, they're still forming. And they may not be able to, as we as a I mean, even this stuff we put down here, Sarah's like, this would be so hard to do even as a couple to stop and say, I feel embarrassed right now. Or I I was afraid you would get mad at me. I didn't know what else to do in that moment.

I do care, but I feel like I already messed everything up anyway. or I just need a minute to think. Can you just give me a minute? or or I don't understand why I did that yet. I mean, those are very vulnerable statements to say. They are, and and how much work you you our brains, like you pointed out, it would be hard for us as adults with fully mature brains to be that vulnerable and access those thoughts. So we have to just take a step back and go.

How much harder it's going to be for them to collect themselves or to be that vulnerable, to expose themselves in that way of let me tell you what my inner world, what's going on in there. And a lot of times they don't even know yet, you know, but even if they did, to take that risk with you, we I mean, we've got to be the safest parent in order to go there. Yeah. And and and and in s in in that moment, their nervous system is just saying, protect yourself, keep yourself safe. And for some kids, protection sounds like.

Kyle and Sara Wester (07:09.183)
Or I don't know. One sounds tough and the other one just sounds blank. But both may be signs that the kid is having a hard time accessing the ability to reflect in that moment. I don't care. Think of I don't care as like armor, right? I'm putting up my armor. I don't know can be a freeze response. Like I'm assessing the situation to know what's okay to know, right? Hey, that armor comment reminds me of what you were saying earlier about.

So you know how they kind of need to hold up that armor all the time because society's saying, What do you care? What's wrong with you? Are you a man or what? You know, you need to have that armor of I don't care. Yeah, yeah. And so this doesn't mean that we ignore the behavior. It doesn't mean we remove the boundary. It doesn't mean we excuse the ways they've been talking to us that may be rude or disrespectful, whatever, but it does mean we understand the moment in a different way, a more, a more wise way, a more helpful way.

So instead of hearing my child is bad for doing this or saying this, we can hear my child is having a hard time. And they're having a hard time doing what? Accessing the ability to be honest, the ability to take responsibility, the very the ability to care, or even the language to express it. It's just difficult to access. And so it can take them a long time to get to that place, you know, and we can help them get there. Well, I'm telling you, and when I'm helping teenagers and kids.

in in with this very thing, that's what we're doing most of the time. Right. Yeah. It's like, yeah, w what once we've done the work together and I've helped the kid get to that space where they actually know and I'll say, how come you shouldn't say that? And the kid'd be like, Well, I I didn't know to say that, you know? Okay, cool. Say it now. And then I then the parent will come up, the kid will say it. It changes the whole dance, you know? but you know, th some of the responses that we have, the reactions we have that often backfire. And if you're listening and you've done this, I'm sure you're gonna resonate with these. I definitely do. Is a lot of us just

React by pushing harder. So when they say I don't care, we might say something like, Well, you better start caring. I think my parents used to say that to me. You better start caring. You will care when you lose your phone. or that attitude's not gonna work in the real world, buddy. when they say I don't know, something we might say is, What do you mean you don't know? I mean you just did it a minute ago, right? Or, I know you know, you do know. that's not an answer.

Kyle and Sara Wester (09:29.165)
You know, these are things that definitely will cause the kid to recoil and close up. Yeah. but in that moment we're saying these cause we're scared, we're frustrated, and we're so badly want them to take ownership. Yeah, because I think those both those phrases that they can be so triggering for a parent, you know, and you're already probably in a tough spot anyway. You know, you're you're not your your best self at that point. Something has bothered you, something has happened, and you're seeing the big problem that this could cause down the road, whatever it is, even in the moment.

You know, so yeah, but but actually what happens is we want them to take responsibility for it or owner speak, you know, communicate. But when we push harder, you know, most of the time kids become more defensive. now they're not thinking about what happened, they're thinking about how to survive the conversation. They're like, What do I need to do to get out of this? The conversation becomes about power instead of about growth. The parents' fear just starts to get louder and the child's walls will get higher, and nobody is learning at all. so

Sarah I want to give you just a simple shift, a shift that we do ourselves, but also that we help coach parents to use. Okay. The shift is this. Don't argue with the phrases. You don't need to argue with I don't care, I don't know. Just get curious about what's underneath that, because it really is, there really is so much underneath it. And that's where the the real meat is. So when your child says something like I don't care, maybe try and say this. Say, I hear you saying you don't care. And I I don't I'm not gonna argue with that.

I wonder if this feels too frustrating, embarrassing, or hard to talk about right now. When your child says, I don't know, try this. It makes sense that it may be hard to know right now. Let's just slow it down. You don't have to have the perfect answer, but we do need to understand what happened. This keeps us from getting pulled into the typical power struggle that can happen. You know, if you notice in those responses, we're not agreeing, we're accepting.

Or letting them we're not agreeing or accepting or letting them avoid any responsibility or repair. We're actually helping their brain move from defensive mode to reflective mode. And the goal is to help them access what is true. Yeah. Right. And that's the only way you're gonna get to it. If you want to get to the truth and you wanna really see what's underneath, you got to be able to make that safe for the kid. Yeah, and I

Kyle and Sara Wester (11:53.982)
I I feel like this inside, man, we so want to be that safe parent and we so accidentally sabotage ourselves at the same time, you know? And it just has to be this thing that we hold out and go, man, I don't think I was a safe parent in that moment. But if we want our kids just like, who do you open up to? You open up to your friend or whoever you feel like is that safe person that you can be that vulnerable with. And so we're constantly just gotta do that work and go, I messed that one up, or I you know.

And just work towards being that that person that your child can be that vulnerable with. Yeah. And so we we wanted to to talk about some specific age groups and kind of think about ways that you could help them. So be thinking w what age your kids are and kind of put them in these categories, give you some real direct skills to use. So when they're eight to ten, your kids probably need the words to use. So when they're eight and when eight, nine or ten-year-olds say, I don't care or I don't know, they may truly

Just not know what to say. So they just start saying it, right? So they may feel flooded, they may feel some shame, they may be scared of being in trouble, they may not understand even their own behavior. So at this age, we just want to keep it short, warm, and concrete. So you might say something like this I think this feels hard to talk about, but we can slow down. I hear you saying you don't care. I wonder if you actually just feel mad, sad, embarrassed, or frustrated. And give them some simple choices. I always find that so helpful when I'm working with kids these age. Yeah.

Is just say, were you mad, worried, or embarrassed? did you not know what to do or or or did you not want to stop playing what you're playing or doing what you're doing? Do you need help fixing it? Or do you need a did you need help? Do you need a minute first? Okay. So some of these things are ways to kind of slow it down, let the kid kind of calm down, think through it, see you as a helpful guy.

If you have kids in this age group, even younger, but honestly it's really powerful even for little kids, just if you think that a lot of their language is still developing, a lot of that they start moving to some abstract thinking, some like interior, what's going on in my inner world that they're not very aware of when they're young. And so as that starts to develop in them, we have to have that patience, like you said, to slow it down. And we might need to lend them something and let them correct us. You know, like, man, I'm just gonna take a guess at this. I'm wondering.

Kyle and Sara Wester (14:11.655)
if this might have been going on and then be really slow enough to let them sort of process through it, think through it. at this age, we've talked about playful parenting before, even using play or and things like that to help them because they're doing a lot of work. It's really hard for them to pull up like, what was going on inside of me? So we can lend them that language that they don't have. And then just be very open to them saying, well it wasn't that it was this. And sometimes I'm not saying

It could be that quiet kid, but sometimes the kid says, I don't know or I don't care. And they're actually saying lots of words. Yeah. You know, but it so it's not rather it's a quiet kid or a talkative kid. It's just helping them grow the ability. It's gonna take years. So grow that ability. This is the long game of how do I help them kind of wake up to what's going on inside of them. That's great. And so at this age, remember you're lending them the words, the language. So ages eleven to thirteen, those that that tween age.

Those kids need some dignity and some direction. So with tweens, I don't know and I don't care, can become ways to protect their independence and avoid shame. they don't want to feel little, you know, they don't want to feel demeaned or controlled. Who does? I know, yeah, but specifically. They they don't want to feel like they're always in trouble, always messing up. Yeah. so a helpful might response to them might be I'm not here to trap you. I'm here to help you understand yourself and to help you make helpful choices.

you may not know yet that that that is okay. You know, so they may not know yet what it is they're they're feeling or thinking. And that's okay. We'll stay with this until we can understand it better. this age really needs your calm leadership and they need to feel that they are not a bad kid, they are not powerless, they are capable of repair, and that my parent is not against me. And I'm telling you, Sarah w when when I do this with kids and I see them grab onto this, especially that part where they're not bad and they're not powerless. Yeah.

Then they go, I could actually speak up and I could actually say what I'm feeling. Cause they they kind of learn sometimes in that early age to just back down and or just blow up, you know. And they didn't learn that they could just advocate for themselves in a kind, respectful way. And their parents would listen to them. And the parents work on that is we have to be open. We if we immediately jump to don't talk back to me, you're disrespecting me. You can help them learn to maybe say it in different ways, but we have to do the work of we are transitioning.

Kyle and Sara Wester (16:34.647)
They're gonna be older teenagers and eventually adults. And so we want those chains, those lines of communication open. And this is the time where you're doing a lot of that work of I will listen to you, you know, even if we need to tweak it. But we want them talking to us, not just do what I say, be quiet, listen, don't talk back.

We want otherwise you're not gonna they're not gonna do this. If you lay that groundwork all the time of just do it, they're not gonna ever get here and then you're gonna wonder why they're not talking to you. Yep. So ages fourteen to eighteen, those those teenagers, they need influence, not a courtroom. So with teens, these phrases can feel especially scary because once again the stakes are so high at that age. School, phones, friends, dating, honesty.

driving, jobs, all those things, future plans, all those kind of things. You're you're you're you're starting to like I've got a short bit of time. I need them to care and I need them to tell me, you know, what's going on. So when a teen says I don't care, it may mean something like, I feel like I've already failed. And that's I hear that a lot, especially when it comes to school. I don't want another lecture. I need control over my life. I don't think you're gonna understand. I care, but I do not want to show you that right now. Because especially Sarah, sometimes parents will just

Find that which the kid cares about and then take that away from Yep. Use it against them. Yeah. And they'll be like, I made that mistake too often. Yeah. Everything I seem to care about, you seem to take away from me. Yeah. So and and naturally at this age they're kind of turning towards their peers, you know. And so part of us needs to s accept that, okay, they're they're expanding their world, they're finding a world, you know, and it can't just be us anymore. so you might need some patience and some working with your child to have to

realize they're gonna turn away, but you're wanting them to turn back to, you know, kind of that going in and going out phase that happens right now. And so if we want them to be coming back to us again, we have to create this environment. They can do that in. Yeah. And when a teen says, I don't know, it may mean I've not figured myself out yet. I'm overwhelmed. I'm afraid to be honest with you. I don't want this to become a huge conversation. It's a big one. I I I'm sure my my kids can feel that for me. I need space before I can talk.

Kyle and Sara Wester (18:49.441)
So a helpful response to that might be: I'm not gonna lecture you right now. I don't want, I do want to understand what feels hard to you about this. You may not know right now, let's just take a few minutes. Then I want us to come back and talk honestly to each other. For for teens, we want to protect the influence because you do have a limited time left. And you really want to start transitioning into that to where you're you're better understanding how to do this.

relationship where you do continue to keep influence even though the time is limited. we are we are still the parent. A little tip on that too, it is we've talked about this before, but a little tip on that is some don't make it so intense where you're sitting across the table face to face or having it, you know, it's like grab a pizza or go for a drive or sit somewhere, and you gotta first just like make the whole environment chill.

Yeah. And then let the conversation roll out. It'd be more successful than a hey, we need to sit down, talk about something. Yeah. So we we remember we are still the parent. We are gonna hold limits, but we do we do not want every hard conversation to feel like a courtroom. Connection does not mean we become passive. It means we stay steady enough to lead because relationship is the foundation. So here's some things we definitely want to make sure we avoid. So some things you don't want to do.

Try not to make the phrase the main battle. Like do if if you think of it like you're kind of majoring on the minors if you get if you get all caught up on the phrase, because the phrase once again is just it's kind of like a rabbit trail. It's it's a red herring away from what's really underneath it. So here are some phrases to avoid. You should care. I'll make you care. You do know. What is wrong with you? You're just being lazy or you're so disrespectful. The issue may still need to be addressed. The behavior may still need a boundary.

Repair may still need to happen, but shaming them usually almost 100% of the time will make the kid hide, become defensive, start blaming or shutting down. So responsibility, we know, just grows best when a child feels safe enough to tell the truth and supported enough to take the next right step. Yep. And that's mostly what I'm doing when I'm helping kids, Sarah. It's like I'm just creating that type of relationship, right? And and I'm doing that to then turn the kid back to the parent and helping coach the parent on how to do that at home.

Kyle and Sara Wester (21:07.851)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So here's just some practical framework for you to take even today and start trying today. When your child says, I don't care, I don't know, just try this. Pausing is never going to be wrong. Just pause for a moment. Name what you hear. Lower the pressure, you know, lower the intensity. Just be curious what's underneath this? And then hold the boundary, but come back to repair. So an example might be something like this. Kid says, I don't care. You say, I hear you.

I'm not gonna argue with whether you care. Kid says, good, because I don't. So then you say, well, maybe you don't right now, or maybe this just feels too frustrating to talk about. Either way, we still need to figure out what happens next. Yeah, whatever. Okay, just pause for 10 minutes. Then then we are just pause for 10 minutes, say we're gonna pause 10 minutes, then we're gonna come back to this. I'm not against you. I'm gonna help you work through it. And that right there is an example of what Sarah and I would say is calm leadership.

Yeah, and and it starts from a place of you you make sure you're regulated and don't try, you know, we we gave ten minutes as an example. If your child's really heated or this is a big moment, give it some time because you want your child needs to come off of that. You know, you both need to be in a good space before you address it. So it's okay. Just don't let it go forever. Make sure you circle back, make sure you're ready for that conversation. Yeah, so it's calm leadership. You're we're not asking any parent to be passive. It's not controlling.

But it's about connection and clarity. later when everyone's calm, you can ask, hey, what happened or what what fell harder about that? What what needs to happen next? What support do you need from me now? an example of I don't know. So you say someone, what what happened with your homework? Kids says, I don't know. I don't I don't I don't know what happened with my homework. Okay, well, you may not know how to explain it yet, but let's let's slow it down. I just don't know. Okay, that's okay. You know, we can start smaller. Did you forget? Did it feel too hard, or did you not want to stop what you were doing? I forgot.

thank you for telling me that. That gives us a place to start. Now let's figure out what would help you remember tomorrow. And I'm telling you, these examples are are seriously things I would simply do with a kid who said I don't know in a session. I I I don't think I'd once you get focused on the I don't know, you you lose focus. You do. And and you realize that if you've done the other thing, you know, that list of you know, just realize your kid's not gonna trust this process at first. And you're gonna have to hang in there and you're gonna have to.

Kyle and Sara Wester (23:33.934)
Prove to them that these conversations are gonna go different. So just be ready for that. Again, the long game, you know, I'm engaging this different and I'm gonna show you that I'm engaging it different. If you fall back into those being triggered and having those other responses like 10 hour long lectures, you know, that you're setting yourself back. So and that's okay. We sometimes mess up. Just Yeah. So Sarah and I would love to encourage you. If your child says, I don't care, I don't know, it doesn't mean you have failed.

It doesn't mean it does not mean they have no empathy. It does not mean that they are just lazy. It doesn't mean they're manipulating you every time. And it doesn't mean that they will never learn how to take responsibility. But it may mean that they need some help getting past defensiveness, shame, confusion, or just being overwhelmed. And that is where parents have so much influence. Not not power over them, but influence with them. When we stay steady, here's the important thing: we model, we model and show them.

You can be upset and I'm not gonna fall apart. That's okay. You can be defensive and I'm not gonna attack you. You can be confused, but I will help you find the words. You can make a mistake and we will still repair that. You can act like you don't care, and I will still believe there's goodness in you. That is the kind of parenting that builds emotional intelligence and connection that lasts a lifetime. So the next time your child says, I don't care, or I don't know.

Try not to chase the words. Look underneath. Be curious. I don't care, may be the wall. I don't know, may be the fog. Behind both is often a kid who's just overwhelmed, ashamed, discouraged, confused. Yeah. It's about them. Yeah. Come with curiosity. Love it. Yeah, it's about them. So instead of asking how do I make them care or how do I force them to give me an answer, ask how do I help them feel safe enough to access what is actually true. That is where connection begins. That is where responsibility grows. And that is where real change will happen.

Your child doesn't need you to panic when they say, I don't care or I don't know. What they need from you is to stay steady. Stay steady, stay calm, enough to help them find their way back to the very things you're wanting in the relationship, which is honesty, responsibility, and connection. And this one, Sarah, is so important for parents to kind of you know be thinking of like we said, it's it's it's becoming more and more of a cultural thing, I think, in many ways, you know. I think a lot of social media promotes this kind of stuff.

Kyle and Sara Wester (25:58.446)
A lot that the teenagers are seeing and hearing is these are ways just to they become regular like learned pat responses, right? So really want to emphasize to all the parents listening to this get skilled at this, get ready for this, because this is gonna happen. And I'm telling you, these tools I've seen them work with the parents I'm coaching and with the kids I'm helping. It's it's it's not a magic wand, but it is awesome how quickly you can change that dance if you're consistently doing this. Okay. So thank you so much for taking the time to listen and definitely share this episode.

When you're hearing other parents deal with this and they're saying, My kid keeps saying this too, saying, we've got a great episode for you. Cause we'd love to continue helping people be able to change this dance of their house to where it can bring more closeness and intimacy in their relationship with their kids. And just thank you for your time and you have a wonderful day.